CAJUNBOWHNTR

Both.Paper tuning will eliminate any gross tuning problems.But as AP said the real goal is to get your broadheads to fly well down range.NAP has a good group tuning guide on their website.If you shoot mechanical heads it's not as critical.

CB

WHACKEM N STACKEM

BobCo19-65

Can someone explain how you could have great accuracy with rotten arrow flight, it just doesn't make sense to me. Especially with broadheads.

From the original post:

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> My goal is for the arrow to be as accurate as possible and to maximize the penetration potential of the arrow as well. This is for a hunting setup only, I don't care about 3-D or target shooting.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

How will penetration be effected by poor arrow flight with great accuracy?

Also, if you have the best arrow flight possible, how can you account for poor accuracy, other then shooting form?

Edited by - BobCo19-65 on 01/30/2003 08:24:04

Arthur P

Accuracy is where the point sticks in the target, not how the arrow flies while it's getting there. It's unlikely to get good accuracy with a poorly tuned bow, but it's possible. Some years back, a fella (he's famous, but I don't remember his name at the moment) won Vegas with a bow that was badly out of tune. He didn't know it at the time and only discovered how messed up his bow was when he got home and checked it over.

It's true that fixed blade heads will go nuts with a poorly tuned bow, but it is possible to get that same good accuracy with bad arrow flight using mechanicals. Very bad combination!

Bad accuracy with good arrow flight ties into some of my paper tuning adventures, and explains why I put little stock in the venture any more...

I've had bows that would shoot perfect 'bullet holes' when paper tuning, but shoot poor groups. A little tweaking, moving the rest or nocking point 1/64&quot; at a time, tightened the groups a LOT. But it didn't shoot perfect 'bullet holes' any more.

You can tune in a good tear in paper even though the bow's tiller is way out of whack. One bow I had recently shot good thru paper even though the nocking point wound up a half inch below square. Had to adjust tiller and retune. So much for bottoming out the limb bolts for maximum poundage and calling it good.

I've even had single cam bows give a good tear with the rest way off centershot toward the sight window. Centering up my sight bar on the 20 put my arrows a couple FEET to the right at 50. Broadheads would have been hopeless.

Someone that paper tunes and stops right there is likely not getting the very best out of their bow. Like I said earlier, paper tuning is an intermediate step, not the final word.

6ptsika

I couldn't agree more, it's a good starting point, but why not utilize all of the other methods as well? We all like to tinker and fool around with out setups all spring and summer anyway?
If you papeer tune, then broadhead tune, then group tune, you should be OK.
Just for the record, a poorly tuned bow shot out of a shooting machine will hit the same hole every time, same as a well tuned bow.
Not that that means much in the real world.

&quot;In heaven, even the fish have antlers&quot;

BobCo19-65

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> You can tune in a good tear in paper even though the bow's tiller is way out of whack. One bow I had recently shot good thru paper even though the nocking point wound up a half inch below square. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

I can definetely see that happening with the tiller out of whack, or a dual cam timing problem.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I've even had single cam bows give a good tear with the rest way off centershot toward the sight window. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Just wondering what you found the problem to be on this one. I had the same problems before (the other way though), but found out on one bow that it was a grip problem, another time it was a spine problem.

Arthur P

Bob, I had the correct spine arrow (70 pounds, 33&quot; draw, 32&quot; GoldTip XT 7595) and didn't change my grip. The bow just had a sweet spot over there where it paper tuned perfectly. I knew I was getting way off centershot, but the tears just kept getting better so I played along with it until it bullet holed. At first I was afraid I had bad limbs or something (split limb bow) because that rotten SOB wouldn't paper tune at all, but the bow checked out fine. I moved the rest back out to center and forgot all about paper tuning. Set my centershot by walkback tuning out to 60 yards instead. But I filed that little experience away in my 'wierd stuff to look out for' file, and I ran across the problem again with another single cam bow by a different maker (solid limb bow).

However, I did NOT find it with either of the single cam bows I had that used dual track idlers that were both split limb. The only thing I can figure is single track idler bows had limb torque and the dual track bows did not. Whatever the reason though, I did get false results with paper tuning.

BOWFANATIC

A competition shooter who likes to push the envelope and get as much speed as he can from his smooth drawing 55lb bow would go nuts trying to get rid of a left tear (underspined) when paper tuning. Thats why most dont bother paper tuning! If I never stepped foot in the woods I'd never paper tune! Why?

I believe it was Bob Ragsdale's son (forget his name) who won a national tournament with a damaged bow. He said they paper tuned it after the tourney to see what kind of flight they were getting because all through the tourney there were little pieces of fletching flying off from every shot. Well , it had an 8&quot; paper tear<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle> But it still grouped excellent! He won the tourney.

>>>---Doug--->

Big Country

BOWFANATIC... it was Terry Ragsdale.
Shooting at 20 yards it is possible to group great with a bad paper tear. But, I personally have never seen a bow group good at 40-60 yards and have a bad paper tear.

My way of setting up for broadheads is to get them grouping good, and hitting with my field points, then double checking with paper. Once my broadheads are hitting with field points, even at 50 yards, they always go through the paper good for me.

Just my observation.

NRA,UBP,BASS Member
New Stanton,PA

Buckfevr

&quot;It's true that fixed blade heads will go nuts with a poorly tuned bow, but it is possible to get that same good accuracy with bad arrow flight using mechanicals. Very bad combination!&quot;

Yeah I think this is so important. I think that the use of mechanicals is not a quick fix for poor tuning but rather requires that the archer step up and ensure that there is a higher level of tuning, one in which accuracy and optimal flight are achieved. And for this I've found that paper tuning at multiple distances works well. And yeah slightly high left, up close is where I've wound up.

As far as fixed heads. I think that it is hard to beat the walkback method for setting centershot although I usually use just two distances 20 yards and 40yards. Paper tuning is just to get things started for fixed heads. IMO