Hawgz

Same as the old, 5 1/2

SAVE A HUNTER EATA PETA

selway

maybe if mathews got there brace height down to 3 1/2 inches they could compete with a blacknight.hehehe

you can use your pepper spray my 12 gauge with 3 inch slugs works fine

Kanga

Here is an update from someone that was at the show.
Taken from archerytalk. posted there by Blazen
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> THUNDERSTRUCK

Having spent the entire show a few booths down from Mathews , I can tell you first hand , your informer is full of bullsh**! There was never a speed challenge issued to Bowtech , Hoyt or any other mfg from Mathews.

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>





Aussie by birth Texan by choice

Ossage

None of this proves anything. Mathews could have issued the &quot;challenge&quot; by cell phone, or in the cafeteria, who knows.

Whatever the case, why would bowtech pick it up? Mathews would be stupid to issue this challenge without first having proved they could &quot;win&quot; it. So lets say they have a hyper tunned BM, custom tillered limbs, and that bow is faster than a stock BT, when compared to stored energy. The show headline would be &quot;mathews faster&quot;. BT seems to generally be perceived as having the faster line of bows, so what is in it for them? Even if BT bows are faster than Mathews, BT should only agree to independant testing.

Bottom line is that the Black Max was the worst bow they ever made, bringing it back is a step in the wrong direction.

The new legacy might be a good hunting bow. Sounds like it is designed to be a little faster. Don't think I have ever owned a sub 7&quot; bow, but as long as it wouldn't catch on my winter clothes, I'm not scared about it.

Overall not a stunning acheivement. Mathews days as the industry technology leader, which is what made their name, are officialy over, including the grace period. I don't think they have added anything to the art since they introduced perimeter weighting (or parallel limb, if that came later) and that was pretty minor. They are still the best bow for me, but I wish they would do somthing a little more interesting. In hunting, I don't think they have done anything significant since the Ultralight. It is one thing to make a bow that shoots nicer, entirely different to make a bow that hits better.

This whole thing about the limb packets is a joke. If you had that problem, all you needed to do was epoxy bed them.

Ossage

By the way. The most obvious thing that Mathews could have done this year was to make their limbs more parallel. They have been moving in that direction over the years. Since the Patriot limb angle was a mathews copy, they could have returned the favour. Any changes in the limb angle? Particularly on the C3?

Ossage

Any tweaks to the Icon? OK pockets, but other than that, brace height, limb angle, cam, ATA?

bigcountry25

IF this is true the Black Max is the new Fastest bow in the world, it proves a point I made in another post and that point is Bowtech has arrived as a major player in the archery industry. Mathews and problaly alot of other companies when Bowtech first came problaly thought that they wouldn't as big of a player as they are now and that is why it took three years for them to make a move in the speed direction and by doing so they are trying to take some of the stem out of Bowtech growth and I think it is a good thing and keeps everyone on there toes. Do you really think that Bowtech laid all there cards on the table with the Black Knight or Extreme Solo or as it is known now the Extreme VFT? I think not. Are buddy BTS has already hinted of a SOLO cam bow that shoos 400fps and let see if you add 20+fps for a dual cam model you get 420fps but will it be shootable with present tech it is doubtful.
As far as the challenge if it was ever really offered I wouldn't take it either. They may very well be faster but how did Bowtech know if they were honest with there offer and didn't put some who do on the bow and gin it up a bit from production specs and I don't think Mathews even made the offer because of the same reason. Yea you could check Brace, bow length, draw length and weight but what about the actual blue print specs on cam, riser, limb, and deflection angles that are used when building the bows on the production line.
I remember when Bowtech first came out the did the samething by making a challenge to Mathews at the amo show and they declined, Bowtech asked the amo officals there first year thier if they could bring a chrono a long and they said sure but no one had ever done that before. I read that in a mag article so that it for what it is worth.
I also remeber a post here I think it was by someone at Mathews or close to Mathews that stated Bowtech is not hurting are bisuness they are only taking market share for our competitors. It doesn't sound like the case anymore with claiming to have the speed title so slow bowtech down a bit.
As far as Mathews being inovator I don't that so they took old designs from many years ago and made IMPROVEMENTS not think the whole think up. All companies do this because there just isn't much out there in the archery industry that hasn't been done before. Heck we are still shooting bows with 20+ year old techknowlege just tweeked a bit and better looks because of better machining. Something to think about huh??
Don't get me wrong speed is good and that is what made me look at Bowtech but it wasn't the Black Knight is was the Mighty MIte I didn't even know about the Black Knight untill I went to there web page and thought that is damn fast but not for me to short of a brace but now I would buy a Black knight and not look back with the 6.75&quot; brace and 350fps. 6.5&quot; on the brace heigth is my limit.
Thanks to Matt\pa's report on the Pro38 dual cam I found out how much better I like a dual cam, I had never owned one and was brain washed by Mathews multi million dollar ad campain that said in so many words twin cams require to much mantaince and solo don't. Well I shot my first Pro38 daully for 4 months and had it timed once when I got it.
On a side note Matt if you read this I havn't forgot.

Edited by - bigcountry25 on 01/18/2003 03:02:23

Tree Hugger

Hi,

Ya right,Mathews didn't invent anything new!

The cave man also invented the wheel by the way.
Let's see perimeter weighted single cams,parallel limbs,etc.

What's funny, is at my archery league night three fourths of the bows people are shooting are single cams,and many are look alike Mathews.

Since where I shoot is not considered Mathews country this is what I seen,Bow tech,PSE,Champions,Forge,Parker and Jenning.Their were a couple Mathews bows present and a few people didn't even know about them,that's the ignorance of some of the public.

The stories of bow problems I heard from many of the shooters were endless,I won't name the worst ones, but it wasn't Mathews.

Kanga

Tree Hugger.

Please list what Mathews has invented


Aussie by birth Texan by choice

Ossage

Aussi I think about their leadership. Yuo could argue the single cam is just a clever rstatement of the alen patent, or the Dynabow (oh right ;0)). But i woukld include the outright new, and the first to do something on any scale, and that would include wood grips, aluminum machined riser, the whole package that is widely copied today could not be had by any other bow at the time. I would have snapped one up without the single cam, which at the time I had no reason to believe would be any more accepted that the Delta V. But they aren't even pushing forward the commercialization any more.

Big25. I sorta agree with you, but since the Black Max has been around since before BT (?), I am not convinced that they are getting witht he program. They should have ripped off the patriot, since it was basicaly ripped off them.