bigcountry

My d-loop was slipping around. The shop who tied it put some FF material and said it would hold. I took it back and told him, its not, please retie. Of course he said he tighened it. Well, its moved around of course.

So I decided to tie my own. I tied it according to Greg/MO's description and it definately won't move now. I bet I know why the shop won't tie this way as it takes time. But I am having a hard time making sure its not too long. When tying the top of the d-loop I pull as hard as I can to get out the play in the knot, and when finishing off the bottom, I even hold the end as I put my pliers in to take out the play. I pull back and forth to get it snug as possible. But when finishing it off with pliers after I burnt the ball, I still have over 1/2" more excess. I just can't get all the play out before finally finishing off.

Any tips? I think part of the issue is with the two knots top and bottom of the arrow, its snugging up against the knots.

Maybe its the loop material too. I bought a pack of 3 7" loops at bass pro Cir cut I think. Its rather thick material than most I have seen. Maybe a change of material would be better.

BGfisher

When I've tied loops on the serving I usually keep the loop as short as possible between the knots. Maybe 1/4" between the loop and the string. Then when I use pliers to stretch it tight it comes out to about 3/4". Something that I've done that helps is to wax the serving before installing the loop. YOu'd think this would allow it to slip, but it actually removes excess friction between the two and allows the loop to pull tighter.

Greg / MO

Ask and ye shall receive...

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=2185934&mpage=1&key=loop&#21 85934

Greg / MO

LOL... I didn't even read past your first sentence before I went and pulled that link for you... Looks like you've already found my thread.

Are you pulling the first knot as hard as you can and then laying the d-loop material straight alongside the string and tying your second knot without "pre-forming" a loop? That should take care of it right there... In fact, I have to watch it or I'll get my d-loops too short!

Also, your loop material could be stretching... I and several others have found that the camoflauge string has less stretch to it than some of the others.

bigcountry

Greg, I think that material is stretching. The loop will be laying right up against the string with about 3mm gap, and then after I apply the pliers to finish it will be over 1/2". I tried it twice. Maybe get some new material. I just read a review that said that cir-cut stuff will stretch

Greg / MO

hmmm... It still sounds to me as if there's a flaw in the way you're tying your second knot, and not keeping the string "taut" between the two knots.

Realizing that the square knot you're tying is simply two overhand knots, can you verify that the d-loop material lying alonside your center serving is taut as you're tying your first overhand knot, and after? If you have to, you may have to "pinch" your first overhand knot so as to keep that d-loop material taut until you finish off that second knot with that second overhand knot.

The reason I say this is that your material shouldn't really stretch until you actually start shooting it...

Does that make sense?

bigcountry

Maybe Greg. I even had a friend insert the pliers in and put tension between teh string and the loop while I was pulling the tag end working out any slack. Maybe I should have my friend really torque the pliers while I am pulling hard on the tag end. But the more separating force she applys the tighter the knots and I cant work out any of the slack.

Greg / MO

I probably just need to call you... or if you're back in Matt's neighborhood, you could drop in on him; we tie our setups exactly the same. Do you still have my phone number? I'm done with my early morning conference calls if you want to give me a shout (which is what was making me scatterbrained and why I was half-reading posts before responding to them earlier... [8D])

Or, I can try to walk you through it using my instructional thread I linked to up above... After "The D-loop" header which is bolded, go to the sixth picture. Notice how I've got my finger in place holding the first overhand knot which will form the top, or second if you will, square knot? I've got a decent amount of pressure on that little knot to keep the d-loop material taut so it won't get any excess slack in what will eventually become the d-loop itself... Does that make sense? One more wrap around -- while holding the first knot tight so it doesn't get any slack inwhat's going to be the loop -- and I literally sometimes have problems inserting a pair of needle-nose pliers between the string and the loop to stretch it out.

Hope that helps; feel free to call me. I've got my phone right here beside me.

bigcountry

I appreciate it Greg. Let me take a pict of my loop tonight before I bother you on the phone. Cause one thing, my loop material is alot thicker than yours. Even after finally tightening with pliers in the end, my knots are much huger than yours. Even while putting mine on, I noticed the loop material to be much heavier than what was on there before. And I wish I had the slack you do to be able to really pull the second knot. These came in a pack of 3, and were 7" long.

bigcountry

Greg, here is my D-loop, tight as I can get it. My knots are huge compared to yours.