Paper tune picture
08-24-2007, 09:09 PM
#21
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
RE: Paper tune picture
The laser is mounted to your riser.
Take the riser and pretend it is on a 45 deg angleto the cams or powerstroke of the bow(centershot).
Now tell me how that tool will be accurate.Now pretend it is only 5 deg or 1 deg,doesn't really matter,if it is off it is off.How much is irrelevant.
Centershot is the power path of the cams.When the laser is mounted to the riser,it may or may not be running parallel with the powerstroke.Some bows it is parallel and some bows it is not.
And I posted on greg's thread also.
Take the riser and pretend it is on a 45 deg angleto the cams or powerstroke of the bow(centershot).
Now tell me how that tool will be accurate.Now pretend it is only 5 deg or 1 deg,doesn't really matter,if it is off it is off.How much is irrelevant.
Centershot is the power path of the cams.When the laser is mounted to the riser,it may or may not be running parallel with the powerstroke.Some bows it is parallel and some bows it is not.
And I posted on greg's thread also.
08-24-2007, 09:53 PM
#22
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Roanoke, Va
Posts: 3,562
RE: Paper tune picture
OK, thanks for the reply. Glad I asked.
Even though I feel frustrated alot of the time; its alot more rewarding finding centershot and tuning my bow the "old fashioned" way. I learn alot doing it this way.
Even though I feel frustrated alot of the time; its alot more rewarding finding centershot and tuning my bow the "old fashioned" way. I learn alot doing it this way.
08-24-2007, 10:01 PM
#23
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
RE: Paper tune picture
I have stated it many times.I am not against lasers.They have their place,especially in adjusting out cam lean.
If I had complete confidence that manufactuers had the riser machined square (and film dipping consistant) I would use a laser everytime but that just isn't the case.
If I had complete confidence that manufactuers had the riser machined square (and film dipping consistant) I would use a laser everytime but that just isn't the case.
08-25-2007, 05:19 AM
#24
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 2,413
RE: Paper tune picture
The real point of what TFOX is saying, is that if you can't trust a laser's findings, why use it? The same holds true of paper testing. The results cannot be trusted and walk-back tuning is necessary to confirm that everything's right, so why bother? I think paper is more useful to check for torque than anything else. Inconsistant tears usually points a finger directly at the archer.
08-25-2007, 09:36 AM
#25
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
RE: Paper tune picture
The reason I like to use paper is it lets ME know if I have that magic sweet spot in form and in spine.
I was doing a little testing the other day.I shot my arrows through paper and was getting a round hole at 2',notbullet hole but the tear was still round,showing just the arrows paradox.At 6' its a bullethole and at 10' it was a bullethole.Telling me that when I tunedon the range,I had good form and the spine is dead on.
Next Ichecked an arow that was only .010 bigger in diameter and 1 size heavier in spin.The arrow had the same tear at 2' and 6' but at 10' it started a tail high tear.Only about a 1/4" but a tear none the less.I could have paper tuned it out but I would have lost that tune that was achieved in the yard.
This isn't a big issue and both arrow would shoot well andkill a deer.
It might be a bigger issue at 90 meters though.
There is something about arrows and their spine that many if most just don't understand.The arrow is a tuning fork,there needs to be a little vibration in that arrow during it's full flight.That vibration helps retain energy and gives it "pupose" in flight. Little will affect where it hits if it has this.
A weak arrow is wobblingall over the place showing that it has no"purpose"
A slightly stiff arrow performs very close to a properly spined arrow but that little kick it was starting to showthat theenergy isn't being absorbed into the arrow,meaning it is losing energyand "purpose".
Don't get me wrong,if I have a bow that tunes good,shoots good and has a small tear,I will shoot it and hunt with it.BUT,I will continue to search for an arrow that will yield a good result in paper.
If you can't dazzle em with brilliance,baffle em with bs.
I was doing a little testing the other day.I shot my arrows through paper and was getting a round hole at 2',notbullet hole but the tear was still round,showing just the arrows paradox.At 6' its a bullethole and at 10' it was a bullethole.Telling me that when I tunedon the range,I had good form and the spine is dead on.
Next Ichecked an arow that was only .010 bigger in diameter and 1 size heavier in spin.The arrow had the same tear at 2' and 6' but at 10' it started a tail high tear.Only about a 1/4" but a tear none the less.I could have paper tuned it out but I would have lost that tune that was achieved in the yard.
This isn't a big issue and both arrow would shoot well andkill a deer.
It might be a bigger issue at 90 meters though.
There is something about arrows and their spine that many if most just don't understand.The arrow is a tuning fork,there needs to be a little vibration in that arrow during it's full flight.That vibration helps retain energy and gives it "pupose" in flight. Little will affect where it hits if it has this.
A weak arrow is wobblingall over the place showing that it has no"purpose"
A slightly stiff arrow performs very close to a properly spined arrow but that little kick it was starting to showthat theenergy isn't being absorbed into the arrow,meaning it is losing energyand "purpose".
Don't get me wrong,if I have a bow that tunes good,shoots good and has a small tear,I will shoot it and hunt with it.BUT,I will continue to search for an arrow that will yield a good result in paper.
If you can't dazzle em with brilliance,baffle em with bs.
08-25-2007, 10:35 AM
#26
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 415
RE: Paper tune picture
TFOX - I guess the point(s) I was attempting to make are:
First that I was amazed the laser worked on my bow. (Vulcan)
Not having faith that the laser would work on every bow, including mine, it was interesting that it did.
Sticking to the basic method of first paper tuning to arrive at a point to "begin" tuning the bow via group/walk back tuning is IMO still the most stable process to tune your bow to individuals style in shooting.
Not everyone shoots the same, ie, hand pressure/location, possibly to long of a draw, head position, anchor point,marginally decent form as not everyone shoots on a pro level. Having the newer industry tools such as the Hooter Shooter etc. enabling the disection of each component to insure the bow is tweaked for optimum performance is fantastic if the resources are available.
Ultimately the individual certainly wants to tune the bow to the best of their capabilities. Unfortunately, most don't have the resources to achieve the end result made possible to such a finite degree.
Thus, tuning a bow using the standard information and basic tools will yield truely an exceptionally good shooting bow.
I certainly didn't mean the laser was a cure all. It meerly worked for me this time.
I appreciate your feedback.
First that I was amazed the laser worked on my bow. (Vulcan)
Not having faith that the laser would work on every bow, including mine, it was interesting that it did.
Sticking to the basic method of first paper tuning to arrive at a point to "begin" tuning the bow via group/walk back tuning is IMO still the most stable process to tune your bow to individuals style in shooting.
Not everyone shoots the same, ie, hand pressure/location, possibly to long of a draw, head position, anchor point,marginally decent form as not everyone shoots on a pro level. Having the newer industry tools such as the Hooter Shooter etc. enabling the disection of each component to insure the bow is tweaked for optimum performance is fantastic if the resources are available.
Ultimately the individual certainly wants to tune the bow to the best of their capabilities. Unfortunately, most don't have the resources to achieve the end result made possible to such a finite degree.
Thus, tuning a bow using the standard information and basic tools will yield truely an exceptionally good shooting bow.
I certainly didn't mean the laser was a cure all. It meerly worked for me this time.
I appreciate your feedback.
08-25-2007, 11:23 AM
#27
Guest
Posts: n/a
RE: Paper tune picture
ORIGINAL: TradTech
I was speaking of walk back tuning for broadheads. Not specificly for field points. Depending on the variance/tollerance, which there is for the average archer who tunes their bow the best they can, the bullet hole is not apparant as spine, foc, both come into play. Still allowing for adequate broadhead flight performance.
Most notebably is that for a right hand archer, the nock right/high tear is evident when the same arrow is shot through paper after group tuning and acceptable for performance.
While group tuning a bow without the aid of the laser for centershot, utilizing only the method of paper tuning "before" group tuning, and checking through paper after group tuning the norm is the nock right/high tear.
I was speaking of walk back tuning for broadheads. Not specificly for field points. Depending on the variance/tollerance, which there is for the average archer who tunes their bow the best they can, the bullet hole is not apparant as spine, foc, both come into play. Still allowing for adequate broadhead flight performance.
Most notebably is that for a right hand archer, the nock right/high tear is evident when the same arrow is shot through paper after group tuning and acceptable for performance.
While group tuning a bow without the aid of the laser for centershot, utilizing only the method of paper tuning "before" group tuning, and checking through paper after group tuning the norm is the nock right/high tear.
What you say, I agree with, with fingers and broadheads, and old fixed rests like bodoodle and TM's shooting 4ft from teh paper. But not with drop aways and shooting 3-5 yards from the paper.
Hey if it works for you. Go for it.
08-25-2007, 08:49 PM
#28
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
RE: Paper tune picture
Tradtech
You are absolutely correct with most of your points and I do agree BUT when someone that has little or no experience tuning a bow tells me they used or got a laser tune,I cringe.The reason is I had a friend pay someone to screw a laser on their bow and came to me afterwards asking me why he didn't have enough adjustment in his sight.I had to tell him his centershot was way out and that was why he didn't have enough adjustment.This was a bow shop that did this to him.Imagine what this guy would have been doing trying to get things right without someone around to tell him he waisted his time and money.
This happened right before we shot our indoor 3-dleague.I took his bow and eyeballed centershot for him and readjusted his sights and he shot his best score ever that night,WITH AN EYEBALL TUNE.
That is what I will tell people everytime about tuning,centershot above all else.NEVER adjust away from centershot to achieve a good tear in paper.Minor rest adjustments are necessary for group tuning and that is just setting centershot to your grip style,as you pointed out earlier.
You are absolutely correct with most of your points and I do agree BUT when someone that has little or no experience tuning a bow tells me they used or got a laser tune,I cringe.The reason is I had a friend pay someone to screw a laser on their bow and came to me afterwards asking me why he didn't have enough adjustment in his sight.I had to tell him his centershot was way out and that was why he didn't have enough adjustment.This was a bow shop that did this to him.Imagine what this guy would have been doing trying to get things right without someone around to tell him he waisted his time and money.
This happened right before we shot our indoor 3-dleague.I took his bow and eyeballed centershot for him and readjusted his sights and he shot his best score ever that night,WITH AN EYEBALL TUNE.
That is what I will tell people everytime about tuning,centershot above all else.NEVER adjust away from centershot to achieve a good tear in paper.Minor rest adjustments are necessary for group tuning and that is just setting centershot to your grip style,as you pointed out earlier.
