Arthur P

I assumed we were talking about shooting light and heavy arrows from the same bow at the same draw weight. Weren't we? Or do I need another pill? [:-]

passthru79

It seems pointless to try and argue with some people aboutthe fact that a light weight arrow set up works, and can work just as good as a heavy arrow set up. Those of you who prefer heavy arrows good for you. Ive been bowhunting for 19 years and have yet to loose a deer for lack of penetration. Ive seen guys shooting 50 lbs and a big honkin aluminum arrow not get the penetration needed for a quick clean kill. I think I might have to go ask all the deer Ive killed if a heavier arrow with more momentum would have killed them any deader than they are. Something tells me they wont have much to say on that subject.

kdsberman

I agree. My first deer was shot with about 42# draw weight...arrow went straight through. My girlfriend shot her first buck using 39#. I dont know about arrow weights for either of those setups, but they probably werent anything out of the ordinary. ACCURACY. ACCURACY. ACCURACY.

Arthur P

A 70 pound high performance compound these days is generally putting out more energy than Fred Bear's recurve that he used to kill a freakin' ELEPHANT in the 60's. So it'd be plumb embarrassing if that bow couldn't shove a toothpick through a puny little deer's chest.

Do light arrows work?IF you're knowledgeable enough touse the proper equipment and choose the right broadhead for the amount of power your equipment delivers... IF you're experienced and know how to control yourself under the stress of the moment to make a clean shot... IF you're patient and refuse to take anything but ideal shots... IF you're skilled enough and able to place your shots properly... IFyou're not after anything bigger or tougher than a deer... I'd say they 'probably' do work, but stuff happens. A heavier arrow would still work better, and give a little extra insurance when stuff does happen.

Here's hoping your luck holds and you never dolose a deer, passthru. At the same time, your streak is not gonna keep me from thinking arrow weights less than 400 grains is absolutely foolish. Not gonna keep me from trying to get them banned either. Because, believe it or not, not just everyone out there 'bowhunting' has the experience, knowledge,patience or skill to make light arrows work. And arrow weight is one item we can mandate to give them at least a fighting chance of making a kill rather than a wounded and lost animal.

So, yes, it is pointless to argue that your light arrows work. At least, with me.

Oh, by the way... I've been hunting26 years years longer than you and have never hunted with arrows weighing less than 500 grains. I've never wounded and lost a deer either. Nock on wood.

bow_hunter44

I was using your argument, so you tell me? Beyond that,

DO

THE

MATH...

Arthur P

Bow hunter44... Your mathisn'twhat I question. It's the physical capabilities of the equipment... The same bow at the same poundage cannot shoot a heavy arrow the same speed as a light arrow. The heavy arrow is always slower than the light one. That is why the KE's stay pretty constant when switching from light to heavy. The heavy arrows get a slight advantage in KE but a huge bump up in momentum.

TFOX

Arthur,watch that pressure.


I don't agree that arrows under 400 gr should be banned.My daughter is shooting thick walledaluminum arrows,cut on contact 2 blade heads withfeathers.They are slightly overspined already and weigh in at a whopping 380 grains.She is only shooting 30#'s (no limit in Ky)so that is 12.6 gr per.


That is pretty well maxed out for her,yes,she has a 15- 20 yard limit but I think the setup is reasonable and she shouldn't berequired to have a 400 gr arrow.Yes I could get the weight over 400 but I just don't think the weight would be a difference and would hurt more than help.


After all,we need to get the kids out there.



You know as well as I do that thin walled aluminums weigh more than carbon but do not penetrate as well.That is the grey area.I would rather have my 380 gr carbon than a 400 gr thin walled aluminum.Under your scenario,the carbon is outlawed but the aluminum is fine but doesn't work as well.[8D]

bow_hunter44

I am truly evnious. Two experienced (many years) bow hunters have never lost an animal. I hope you hunt for many more years and take that statistic to the grave. I on the other hand.... Sad story, years ago. Elk hunting with a buddy. We called in a nice bull. Of course he did what critters do and came in all wrong. Straight on until he stopped in front of me at CLOSE range when I drew my bow. There was a tree covering anything soft in his front and I had no shot. I stood at full draw for 40 or 50 years waiting for him to present me with anything. Eventually he turned just enough that I had a small target behind a front leg. I knew I could hit the spot so I let the arrow go, and hit the spot. Earlier in the year I had changed my cams from energy cams to wheels (I wasn't getting any younger, even back then) and had to go down in arrow size from 2315 to 2213, plus a drop in broadhead weight. To make an already long story short, all the understand of physics in the world can not make for poor judgement. I should have never taken the shot. But in the heat of the moment I did. I don't know how many times that day, on my hand and knees, heart in my throat, begging for a drop of blood, I wished with all of my being for one more gram of arrow weight, one more gram of broadhead weight. Anything that would get even a nanometer more of penetration. Would I have traded the setup I was using for passthrough's current set up. In a heartbeat. The question becomes, even if I had would I still have been on my hands and knees praying for a drop of blood? I can't answer that question, but I can say the memory of wishing for one more gram of arrow weight, one more gram of broadhead weight will stick with me for ever. After that experience I put my bow down and came within a breath of never picking it up again. Passthrough talks about shot placement, and he is right. On the other hand, Arthur states that 'stuff happens' and he is right also. Evidently the answer to the question is a personal one. I just hope that none of us ever finds them selves on hands and knees, with a broken heart, praying for a spot of blood..... God bless momentum!!!

Straightarrow

Well, I've only got 37 years of big game hunting under my belt. The number of years isn't all that important. I know guys who've shot 2 and 3 times as many big game animals as I have, with only 25 years in. In those 37 years, I've taken approx 60 big game animals with a bow. Not a very large number compared to many. I wish I could say I never used less than a 500 grain arrow, but I went through a couple years of shooting "faster" and learned the hard way. The worst penetration I've ever seen, came from two animals I took with light arrows. One had a mechanical head on it (never again). The other was simply not enough weight to do what I'd prefer on the elk I shot, in the spot I hit it. I killed and recoved the elk, but it was borderline to having not worked. The arrow was 420 grains. In the future, nothing less than 650 gr on elk, for me.

Our comfort zone tends to be what we know worked for us in the past. If light weight worked, then that's what we go for. As soon as I saw it not working well, I tried heavier - much heavier. I've been building up arrows in the 800-1000 grain level and have experimented with extreme FOCs in the 18-28% range. All I can say, is that they are unbelievably great flying and pack an incredible punch.

Some might think that I doing something extreme and that it won't work for most. Well, I believe they would work better for the average hunter - much better. These super heavy arrows fly remarkable well, even out of bows that are not well tuned (read average bowhunter). In addition, trajectory is simply not an issue inside of 30 yards, or at known distances.

Tfox, I know that 12 grains/lb sounds like a lot, but guys successfully use much higher weights. I was just reading the other day about a guy using 1500 gr arrows out of his 60 lb longbow. Lots of guys who have draw weight issues, will use a 650 gr or higher weight arrows on 30-35 lb traditional bows, to successfully take big game. I read another story about one of these guys who took 17 deer in one year with a 35lb longbow (as I recall, he said 90% of the shots were complete pass throughs. I've shot these 20 gr/lb arrows and inside 20 yards, there isn't much difference in your aiming point. I know that if my daughter hunted (she draws 37 lbs), I'd build her arrows in the 650 gr range and have total confidence in their killing power.

My point is, until you try these types of arrow weights and FOC ranges, it's difficult to compare to the lightweight stuff.

Arthur P

TFOX, that's the thing I knew someone would bring up. I KNEW IT!

A 400 gn limit won't hurt anybody, won't keep anyone out of the woods, won't do anything but make for more effective equipment. Like your daughter... She's at 380 grains. Switching to a 25 gn heavier broadhead will put her over 400 and won't do diddly squat to her effective range. It'll even increase her arrow's FOC and that's a good thing.

I don't know what she's shooting but I'm sure it's a heckuva lot better than what I had to work with when I was her age. I'm nearly positive her dad didn't hand her a pocketknife and a piece of aged elm and tell her to make her own bow.