davepjr71

Thr problem is that you take his final word ass the gospil for shooting. He clearly states something like an extreme FOC carbon arrow out penetrates another one of the same weight and you only talk about how I need a 750 gr arrow to kill a deer. Furthermore, you can not compare a .22 to a bow.

A firearm uses the KE of the bullet to disrupt the bloodflow and nervous system of an animal to kill it. An arrow uses the ability to create a wound that will either bleed out, make the animal sufficate when the lungs fill up with blood, or you cut thru the heart killing the animal.

The reason that .22 LR, or .22Mag are not acceptable is they do not develope a KE that is sufficient for a humane kill. Will they kill an animal? Of course they will. But that doesn't mean it's right.

I'm sure you are talking about a .223, or 22/250. If you shot one with a .22 mag or smaller then I'm done listening to anything you have to say about what is acceptable for archery.

Even a light arrow will penetrate the body cavity and allow an arrow to do what it has been doing for thousands of years. Any pointed projectile for that matter is designed that way. The heavier arrow does not kill faster or make the animal more dead. That's rediculous to say and I'm sure even the heavy arrow advocates will agree with me on that one.

Arthur P

passthru, if flat trajectory is your only concern then I've got a challengefor you. You need to shoot some heavier arrows and find out just what the actual difference is on your trajectory over the distances you typically shoot game. I've experimented with various arrow weights and I'm not going to tell you my results. You've pretty well made it clear you wouldn't believe me, no matter what.

I challenge you to takethe arrows you shoot now and add weight to them to get them over 400 grains. Shoot them at the same sight settings you have now and compare point of impact. Then weight them up to 450 grains and repeat. YOU do the experiments, come back and post your results, and then we'll compare notes.

bow_hunter44

The problem? Problem for whom?

Bullets inflict damage in a manner different from an arrow? Really? .22's do not develop sufficient KE to humane kills? Really? And somehow or another .223 or 22.250 are acceptable? Nope. They do not have enough bullet mass. Is there an echo in here??

Arthur P

The heavier arrow has a better chance of getting into the body cavity in the first place, especially in bad situations. That's the whole point.

Straightarrow

I could probably say this another hundred times and I doubt you'll get it. I'm not saying you "have to" or "need to" use a heavy arrow. I'm saying it's the best way. If you hit the shoulder, the heavy arrow has a chance to get through and kill the animal, the lightweight one, has almost no chance. Don't tell me that good hunters are immune to hitting a shoulder. S..t happens and it happens to everyone who has taken enough shots.

As for trajectory. It's a non issue at normal hunting distances. In fact, it's a non issue at any distance if you have a range finder or know the distance. In fact, heavy arrows with high FOC are preferable the further out the game is, because they fly more true. They are far more stable in wind. Heck, there are guys using longbows at 40+ yards and shooting tight groups. They don't even use sights and trajectory isn't an issue with them. How on earth can a guy using a compound with sights have a problem at normal hunting distances. He can bring a range finder, pace off the yardage in advance, or even practice until he's real good at estimating.

If trajectory is an issue for anyone, they really need to rethink how they prepare for a hunt.

Straightarrow

There's that statement, "need to", again. I'm trying to find where anyone here said that. I know I haven't.

It does if you hit a heavy bone and the heavy arrow gets through to the vitals. We both know that the light arrow has no chance on a bone of any significance. Are you denying that a heavy arrow can get through a bone that a light one can't? If so, re-read the link I gave you on the "bone-breaking" threshold. He isn't making this stuff up. It's true.

BobCo19-65

I'm not sure of your meaning here. Ashby was still using heavy arrows. Light shafts, extremely heavy points. OL Adcock also shot trajectory and world distance records using the same theory of extreme FOC. It blows away some people theories that a low FOC will produce a flatter shooting arrow as well as some theories that suggest that high FOC arrows will noise dive.

bow_hunter44

So true Arthur. A heavier arrow has a better chance of penetrating into the vitals in a bad situation. Shot placement is critical in the extreme. However, there are so many things beyond our control out there in the woods at the point of harvest, the animal jumping the string, simply deciding to take a step right at shot release, etc., etc,. etc., that having bad things happen is, sadly, virtually inevitable.

Straightarrow

Ashby has discovered some fascinating results and come to some pretty enlightening conclusions. Here are a few I’ve pulled from his reports.

“A number of bows (recurves, longbows and compounds), and several crossbows, have been secured for developing the data.”

So, this study does include compounds!

“One thing is clear; arrow kinetic energy has no
validity as a “predictor” of the ability of an arrow to
penetrate tissues, or to deliver a lethal hit. Neither does
the type of bow, or its draw weight.”

Check out his kinetic energy chart where he tracked this. It’s amazing! Lots of low KE hits out-penetrating extremely high KE hits. He also shot some arrows in the 320 fps range, so you know he was using a compound. In any case, the penetration is completely random in regards to KE. In other words, KE is irrelevant.


“As more is learned about the terminal performance of hunting
arrows it is becoming ever clearer that the arrow one uses is
a far more important factor in outcome penetration than the
bow one uses.”

He’s actually getting data that suggests penetration has far more to do with the arrow, than it has to do with the bow. He’s charting penetration from lightweight bows and they’re performing more according to the arrow used, not so much the draw weight of the bow. He does say that this will be a major part of upcoming and more thorough studies on this aspect. Fascinating none the less. This sure would explain why I see so many 70 lb compounds shooting light arrows that barely penetrate whitetails on TV shows. It also helps explain why a guy shooting a 35 lb longbow with a 650 gr arrow, can have all passthroughs on the 17 whitetails he shot at in one year.

BobCo19-65

Pretty good stuff isn't it.

Great to see people reading it.