BobCo19-65

I believe you are way off on that theory.

davepjr71

Ithink you are going way overboard on this whole thing. Maybe you need to get your blood pressure checked or take some valuum? Your type of thought process is why people left England in the first place. I'm going to make you do things my way!!!! And my way is the only way becasue I say so!!!! Please!!

The issue of people not shooting enough has been around for a long long time. Simply stating that if I go to a 401 gr arrow compaired to 391 will fix the problem on deer sized game is close minded and ignorant. A bad shot is a bad shot no matter what the arrow weight. Probably if it was possible to make shooting more fun for the average hunter they may do it. I shoot because it is fun. I stopped hunting in the past because I did not shoot enough to be confident in myself.

Arthur P

Don't be so idiotic. You're blowing the thing way out of proportion. Over what? An extra 40-50 grains of arrow weight?? A loss of maybe 10-12 fps?? OOOHHH! Can't mess up bragging rights about bow speed, can we?

Yeah, maybe it won't make any huge differencebut if even an extra 1/2" of penetration makes the difference in even one deer being killed cleanly or wounded and lost, wouldn't that be worth a tiny sacrifice on your part?

As to people not shooting, you want toknow a big reason why so many bowhunters don't enjoy shooting? I'll tell you. It's a pretty interesting look at how people don't learn from their mistakes and allow history repeat itself.

Back in the 30'speople got tired of shooting the old Kings Round and came up with a target game for bowhunters called field archery. It got really popular because it was fun to shoot. Along came the pure target shooters saying they wanted to play too. So, bowhunters opened the door, in come the target shooters and they began calling themselves freestylers and eventually took over. Then they set things up the way THEY liked it and most all the bowhunters quit. It wasn't fun any more with all the nitpicky rules and cutthroat competition.

So, in the 80's we developed a new bowhunters' game called 3D. It got really popular because it was fun. Then along came the freestylers who said they wanted to play too. Bowhunters opened the door, in came the freestylers, who changed their name to open class and they eventually took over. Then they set things up the way THEY liked it and most all the bowhunters quit. It wasn't fun any more, with all the nitpicky rules and cutthroat competition.

3D has left such a sour taste in the mouths of so many bowhunters that you can't hardly drag them to an archery range any more. A huge number of archery clubs have lost their ranges and had to close because of lack of participation. Even for those who want to shoot, there's often no place to shoot, so no practice.

When was the last time you went to a 3D shoot and actually heard people all around the range joking, laughing and having a ball?To the contrary. It's like you're at a morgue, with everyone acting half afraid to evenbreathe lest they disturb someone on the shooting stake.

If you want to see what it's like to have fun at a shoot, you've got to go to an all-traditional event. Whole different atmosphere, completely different mindset. You better believe they compete but they know how to have fun while doing it.

If you want to get people involved in shooting again, then you've got to keep the serious target shooters on a tight leash. Let them know this is for bowhunters and they're welcome to join in, but they can leave their tournament crap at home, because it's not wanted.

Now, just to backtrack a bit, back to the target shooters taking over 3D.... What you're doing with your light arrows is playing at target shooting on live game, because your arrow selection comes straight off the target shooters'3D course.

IBO speed? It's not an industry standard. It's the speed you can get by setting a bow upwith the minimum arrow weight to be legalfor IBO competition.True story. If it's almost too light to shoot at targets, how in the world can it be heavy enough to shoot at a living, breathing animal??? Answer me that'n, Einstein.

davepjr71

Iskipped the first 5 pages of your disertation and went to the good stuff.

IBO speed is the industry standard that a bow is shot at to determine speed for comaprison with other bows. It used to always be AMA when I started shooting.

"Almost too light to shoot at targets. How can it be heavy enough to shoot a living breathing animal"?

I decided to go look the rules up and fould it interesting reading.

1. The 5 gr per arrow was established to ensure that the bow has a speedgreater than 280 fps. It was not set-up because someone felt 5 gr was too light. It was set-up to make sure the arrows flew fast enough to meet their rules. There is nothing that says that the arrow is too light to shoot targets.

2.In the case where an archer’s equipment, when shot at five grains per pound,does not generate 280 fps, that archer may shoot arrows weighing less than5 grains per pound. Therefore, a shooter can go lighter if they are not over 280 fps.

for the record. I would not go lighter than this for any reason. I choose the arrows because the person I bought them off of uses them himself and mostly hunts. I did not buy them becasue I wanted blazing speed. however, on that note. The increased speed means that if I misjust my range by 5 yds I still hit the animal in the boiler. Where as a 5 yd misjudge by you could hit the animal in the bottom of the sternum and result in nothing more than a woundeg animal. the 1/2" will not help you there.

BobCo19-65

Really??? Are you serious???

Arthur P

Dave... Why not listen to someone who was around when this 5 grains per pound stuff happened? You know diddly squat about it so I'll TRY to educate you.

They put in the 5 grains per pound rule nigh on 20 years ago because people were shooting arrows so light they were blowing bows up right and left and getting hurt. It was a rare tournament there for awhile that I didn't have to put my first aid training to work. It was often a bloody mess. So, IBO put in that rule to stop people from having to leave tournaments to go to the emergency room. It's a safety rule, designed to try and keep idiots from hurting themselves and others. Period. If you don't believe me, trot your buns over to the IBO site and ask.

After that rule, guys started setting their bows up with 5 grains per pound arrows, shooting them through a chrony and started bragging about their "IBO speed." The manufacturers picked up on it, used the 30" draw length from the AMO standard and settled on 70 pounds asthe max poundagethe average 3D'er would shoot and Voila! There's how they started up the myth there's an "IBO standard." For years now IBO has constantly been trying to distance themselves from the whole concept.

Here's the website. www.ibo.netClick on the 'Contact Us' link and you can ask them anything you want. Ask them if I'm telling you the truth about the "IBO standard" and how it came to be.

nodog

You new guys need to understand Arthur. A sweel guy, well respected and he has also been down this road right here many times. You don't have to agree with him nor feel in any way bad if you don't hunt with the specs he puts out. I don't, but I do listen and give him the benifit of the doubt. Can't hurt a thing to give what he's saying a shot. He really does say some interesting and informative things. Now if you've tried things his way and don't care for the results, speak up, by all means.I'd be just as interested in that too. Just don't make this a personal thing. Then again, making it personal is about the only way a thread will last a while around here.

Just felt the need.

TFOX

This is 100% correct.


Arthur has forgotten more than most know,I just wish he would remeber some of it.[8D]

passthru79

T FOX you may be correct with saying arthur has forgot more than most people know, but in my opinion he has forgot to pull his big head out of his a** and try to have an open mind about things. It sounds to me like he is so one sided its like talking to an anti hunter and trying to get them to believe hunting is the right thing to do.

davepjr71

yes