game4lunch

It's winter here. No more big game hunting. So I go to the basement and start shooting my bow through paper. I'm not big on paper tuning as an important aspect of harvesting an animal, but I would like to tune my bow once so that I know the difference. And I'm always hopeful that achieving a bullet hole will eliminate my annual problem of "my field points don't hit where my broadheads do".

Capice?

I've been searching this forum and the entire web for answers and input. And I now am forced to bring up this old subject, "How do I get a bullet hole on paper?"
So those of you who do not think paper tuning is important, thanks but no thanks. I don't want to hear your story.

My shots were "tear right" as I understand it. (fletches and nock enter right of point) As much as 1.5"! I'm 6' from paper, and paper is 6' from target. 12' total.
Equipment: Reflex Super slam (set to max of 70#), All Original, Easton Axis ST's 400's cut to 27", mechanical release, right handed, 100 grain points, Whisker bisquit rest, string loop.
Anything there that would cause a problem?
I just read about "Most bow-risers, the center part of the bow which contains the grip, sight window and arrow shelf, that are produced on todays bows have been tapped for center-shot; there is a hole above the arrow shelf which indicates vertically where your arrow shaft should be at full draw." This is the first I ever heard of this. My arrows are not in the middle of this hole. They are slightly below (1/16") the hole at full draw.
I've moved my rest into the riser and back away from riser and no help.
I have shot a 29" Axis 400 arrow (weaker spine) and no help. I've used 100 and 125 FP's and no change.

Arrow spine too stiff? Not according to local pro shop and eastoncabela's charts.

So, what gives? Thanking you in advance . . .

Sorry this is all so long but the more info you have, the better your chances of understanding.

Paul L Mohr

I could probably give you some useful information but it doesn't sound like you want it. So I won't waste my time.

My suggestoin for now would be to buy some rogain, you will need it after pulling your hair out.

How did it shoot before you put it thru paper? Paper tuning is like the first step to see if everything is innitially correct. By no means is it the end of tuning nor does a bullet hole ensure your bow is perfectly tuned for the application you want.

Shooting your bow thru paper after the season to see what it does doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Isn't that a tad bit too late?

Good luck.

Paul L Mohr

That was sort of butt head answer I guess. Can you tell me if your peak weight is actually 70 lbs, or if it is just maxed out and you assume it is 70 lbs. Many bows peak out above what they are rated at.

what is your actual draw length, not your arrow length but your AMO draw length.

What is on your string, like what sort of peep sight do you use, does it have a rubber alignment tube? Anything else on your string other than your loop like a brass nock or something?

It would be really nice to know how fast your bow will shoot a specific weight arrow.

I have a really accurate program I can run this thru that will tell us how close your arrows are on spine.

When shooting a release you can't really count on the listed fixes. Just because it says "X" tear equals this problem and you should do this to fix it does not always work with a release. Sometimes you need to do the opposite to fix it.

I right to left tear probably has nothing to do with your nocking point height, or how your arrow lines up with the hole in your risor. As long as you don't have contact issues with your shelf or rest the way you have it should be fine. If you had a problem with this you would be getting nock high tears, not side to side.

The problem you are having could be any number of things. From weak spined arrows to poor grip or form. It could also be contact issues with your rest or harness. This is usually the first thing you look for when setting up a bow though.

These are the reasons I don't hold a lot of stock in paper tuning, too many things can effect the outcome to make it an accurate tuning method. And shooting bullet holes at one distance really doesn't mean your bow is tuned well either.

Getting field points to group with fixed blade heads has a lot to do with proper form, very well matched arrows and having the spine as close to what it needs to be as you can.

Did that help you any? I wish I could tell you "try this" and fix your problem, but it may not be that easy.

Paul

TFOX

I like paper tuning but I NEVER compromise center shot to achieve good paper tear.


The 3 biggest reasons for a paper tear is torque,spine and fletching contact,There are other things that can cause tear but when you go beyond these 3 things,it gets real technical and probably isn't worth the average archer to worry about.


You have fletching contact that should be equall so we can eliminate that as a possibility.


The reflex hasa riser that can cause some torque issues so I would try many different hand positions and see if the tear gets better or worse.Try to keep your palm out of the riser as much as possible.Also,make sure your not putting too much pressure on the string with your face,this can also cause a tear.


You never said what your draw was so I can't say for sure it is spine but I am leaning toward this as your problem.Try backing your poundage down to 60#'s and see what happens.



I will almost always have my bows shooting near perfect bulletholes and never move my rest left or right of centershot.It isALMOST always spine that causes tear FOR ME.I do,however,use an archery program to select what spine arrow to use and itusually eliminates spine before it is a problem.So I usually don't have a problem with paper tear anymore.


Funny thing,my current bow, Xtec,HAD a bad tear right and my arrows are slightly overspined so I wasn't too concerned.I don't use string leaches or anything and had some severe string vibrations(severe enough it would slap my wrist and no my draw is not too long)I use 452 plus,I think, and there is no give in this stuff.I was messing around with it one day and a friend had an sts and so I tried it.It took the vibration out and the tear. I put an sts on and never looked back.

Len in Maryland

Quote:

I like paper tuning but I NEVER compromise center shot to achieve good paper tear.

Todd:
If you didn't compromise with some bow designs, you'd get VERY frustrated. Several come to mind but I won't mention any names.

BUCKSdigME

Like already stated I would try gripping the bow in different ways before changing your rest position. Try holdingmore offset to side of the grip. Then try with the middle of your palm where it connects to your wrist direct with the center of the grip and see if there are any changes in the tear. If not then stick to the grip that is comfortable. If your torquing the bow you can pretty much tell by letting off at full draw to where the bow creeps down into the valley and then pull back to your anchor again. Notice the string to riser alignment. If it moves to one side and stays theres probably some hand torque. If it moves left to right and settles then your probably ok. If none of this works try moving your rest position. The rule of thumb is to move your rest the opposite way of the tear but ive actually found it to be the opposite in just as many cases. Sometimes moving your rest in the same direction as the tear works. Also a lot of good shooters have a very slight left tear and its considered acceptable. If no grip changes the tear. Most people also forgot that if your not shooting a centerline cam bow the string and arrow should actually be aligned slightly to the left of the centerline of the grip if your a right hand shooter. Just remember this when checking your center shot. If nothing works and youve done changed your rest position and youve still got the same tear then youve got nothing to lose so go ahead and experiment with extreme rest locations just so you can get an idea of what is really happening. Good luck and if the tear changes let us know and tell us what it is and what you changed.

Bols

Heck, even the Hoyt manual suggest you place center shot just outside the powerpath of the string for correct centershot.

That's where I put my rest and my Trykon shoots pretty dang good.

BUCKSdigME

EXACTLY! Nice to know that a manufacturer actually suggests this.

Len in Maryland

Quote:

Heck, even the Hoyt manual suggest you place center shot just outside the powerpath of the string for correct centershot.

Ergo, not impressed when someone suggests that others use the centershot tools/lasers when setting/tuning bows. Also, the CS tools/lasers ''assume" that there is an effective datum.[:@]

game4lunch

Actual draw weight on scales at the club was closer to 68#. My draw length is 28.5" according to my wingspan. Peep has no rubber tubing. Brass nock. Simm's Super string leeches.
I'm doing this just to "play", not out of any necessity. Been bowhunting for some 20+ years and am quite confident in my shooting. I take elk, deer, regularly (No lopes yet!). So I tend to rule out form/grip torgue. I've changed my grip years ago (and still play with it) to achieve the groups I now shoot. I will try some other grips though. Always tinkering with sh*t.
My grip is a relaxed open hand where I turn wrist back so butt or "lower heel" of hand rests on grip. Bow gently rocks forward after the shot.

It's not that I DON'T want to hear from some of ya, but I just know how these posts can get buried in "off-topic" menutia.
Thanks again for any insight. FORREST FOR THE TREES YOU KNOW!