Questiions about making a bow silent
10-24-2006, 12:25 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 4
Questiions about making a bow silent
I have a 2003 Hoyt Ultratek. I love the bow but want to know how I can make it more quiet. Im shooting Beeman ICS hunters w/100gr sidewinders. Do the dampers really do much? The bow has the ones on the limbs and the string. Thanks
10-24-2006, 12:30 PM
#2
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kodiak, AK
Posts: 2,877
RE: Questiions about making a bow silent
Make sure all the accessories are tight, take the quiver off (if it has one); that's the noisiest part of my UltraTec, shoot a heavier arrow, put more cat whiskers in the string, add a heavier or better dampening stabilizer. And yes, the limb dampeners really help.
10-24-2006, 01:42 PM
#4
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kodiak, AK
Posts: 2,877
RE: Questiions about making a bow silent
As a general rule, weight and silence are inversely proportional; the more it weighs the quieter it will be since mass dampens vibration. There are some exceptions to the rule. The Sims S-coil stabilizer seems to do a very good job while being fairly light.
10-25-2006, 04:38 AM
#5
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 2,413
RE: Questiions about making a bow silent
Things I do to silence any bow I own:
I take off all accessories and then put a layer of moleskin anywhere that metal touches metal. Then I put the accessory back on. This will reduce vibration traveling from the riser to the accessory, or from accessory to accessory. I also never have a quiver on the bow. They are simply too noisy for me. I also never shoot a drop a way rest. Moving parts make noise. For me, the wisker biscuit is hard to beat for silence.
I try a few different stabilizers. Each bow seems to be affected differently by different stabilizers. A good one pays dividends.
In additon to the typical limb savers, I put a cable dampener on the cable guard. They do work.
I make my strings two strands larger than normal. A heavier, thicker string will silence things quite a bit. To this I add cat wiskers to the string and the cables.
Shoot a heavier arrow. Mine are around 530 grains out of a 65 lb draw weight. This will work wonders, not only for the silencing effect, but will give you a heck of lot better penetration.
I tied a Catfish Loop on my string. These loops fit loose and for some reason they have a vibration reducing effect on the string. This causes only a small difference, but I'm one of those guys who do lots of little things to reduce noise. It adds up to a lot in the end.
In addition, I make sure my limb pockets and axels are well lubricated. Grease not only prevents squeeks, but it has a bit of a dampening effect.
It seems like I'm always shooting the most quiet bow at my local range and it doesn't matter what brand the other guys are using, or the brand I'm using for that matter.
I take off all accessories and then put a layer of moleskin anywhere that metal touches metal. Then I put the accessory back on. This will reduce vibration traveling from the riser to the accessory, or from accessory to accessory. I also never have a quiver on the bow. They are simply too noisy for me. I also never shoot a drop a way rest. Moving parts make noise. For me, the wisker biscuit is hard to beat for silence.
I try a few different stabilizers. Each bow seems to be affected differently by different stabilizers. A good one pays dividends.
In additon to the typical limb savers, I put a cable dampener on the cable guard. They do work.
I make my strings two strands larger than normal. A heavier, thicker string will silence things quite a bit. To this I add cat wiskers to the string and the cables.
Shoot a heavier arrow. Mine are around 530 grains out of a 65 lb draw weight. This will work wonders, not only for the silencing effect, but will give you a heck of lot better penetration.
I tied a Catfish Loop on my string. These loops fit loose and for some reason they have a vibration reducing effect on the string. This causes only a small difference, but I'm one of those guys who do lots of little things to reduce noise. It adds up to a lot in the end.
In addition, I make sure my limb pockets and axels are well lubricated. Grease not only prevents squeeks, but it has a bit of a dampening effect.
It seems like I'm always shooting the most quiet bow at my local range and it doesn't matter what brand the other guys are using, or the brand I'm using for that matter.
10-25-2006, 09:44 AM
#6
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,175
RE: Questiions about making a bow silent
Only thing I'll add is make sure the bow is well tuned, with special emphasis on tiller. If the limbs aren't coming back to brace at the same time, with the same force, it will cause unnecessary hand shock, vibration and noise.
10-26-2006, 04:26 AM
#8
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 2,413
RE: Questiions about making a bow silent
ORIGINAL: Arthur P
Only thing I'll add is make sure the bow is well tuned, with special emphasis on tiller. If the limbs aren't coming back to brace at the same time, with the same force, it will cause unnecessary hand shock, vibration and noise.
Only thing I'll add is make sure the bow is well tuned, with special emphasis on tiller. If the limbs aren't coming back to brace at the same time, with the same force, it will cause unnecessary hand shock, vibration and noise.
I agree that tuning is important on two cam and even on hybrid cam bows. Cams not rotating in syncronization would surely cause a lot of vibration. However, I'm having difficulty seeing what affect uneven tiller would have. I have the tiller adjusted to unequal on almost all my bows, because I use tiller to fine tune my nock height. I've never noticed an effect on noise or vibration. It does affect how the bow reacts after the shot. For instance, as I'm sure you know, the bottom limb can be made to jump forward more than the top or the other way around if you prefer. Maybe if one cam is doing more work than the other, it would cause more vibration in that limb, but I would think that the other limb would have less, which should cancel that out. What am I missing?
10-26-2006, 09:05 AM
#9
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,175
RE: Questiions about making a bow silent
Straightarrow, I'll try to explain. It's one of those things that is common knowledge among guys who make homemade traditional or primitive bows, and it translates equally as well to compounds.
Most guys set their tiller even at each end of the riser and call it good. That'd be fine if the handle was centered in the bows' risers. IT'S NOT! The throat of the grip is a couple of inches below center. Several inches on some bows. Someone using a low wrist grip puts the main pressure of their grip a couple of inches lower than the throat. Visuallize the bow's riser as a lever and the grip as the pivot point. The pivot is offset five to six inches.
That naturally puts more strain on the bottom limb to begin with. The limbs will be unevenly stressed when the bow is drawn.(Instead of 35 pounds top and 35 pounds on bottom to make 70 pounds, you wind up pulling more like 30 pounds on the top and 40 pounds on the bottom to get your 70 pounds of draw. Somewhat exaggerated but that's the idea.) The limbs will deliver uneven thrust when the shot is released. Nock travel will certainly not be 'straight and level' even on a 2-cam bow.
You note how one limb can be made to jump forward more than the other limb as the bow returns to brace during the shot. That's the effect I'm talking about. Ideally, the bow should be tiller adjusted to suit the bow's grip location and the archer's shooting style (high wrist, neutral wrist or low wrist grips put the pressure in different locations in the handle). This will allow both limbs to be under equal stess during the draw and shot and the limbs will return to brace at exactly the same time. If it has not been adjusted properly, the bow will have one limb slamming back to brace before the other. That's what makes one limb kick forward more than the other.
Naturally, this is going to cause more shock, noise and vibration with one bow than another. For instance, try shooting a longbow that isn't tillered properly! WOOF!!! That handshock will run right up your arm to your jaw and you'll swear you had a couple of teeth swap holes.[:-]
It won't be as obvious with a compound as with a longbow, naturally, because of the much greater mass in the compound riser. Among compounds, it's not as obvious with a long riser bow using short parallel limbs as it is on a bow using a short riser and long limbs with conventional limb angle. It's not as obvious, but it's still there. And regardless of what one high end bow manufacturer claims, it's just as present on single cam bows as it is with duals and hybrids.
I set my tiller even to start out. Then I point a pin at a spot on the wall and s-l-o-w-l-y draw the bow straight back. The bow will try to pull the pin up or down. For me and my shooting style, it's usually up. I take a turn off the top limb bolt, add a turn on the bottom limb bolt or both. (Naturally, if the pin is pulling down, I'd take a turn off the bottom limb, add a turn to the top limb, or both.) Then I repeat. I keep doing that until I can draw the bow all the way back and keep the pin from rising or dropping during the draw.
That tells me I'm putting the same amount of energy into each limb during the draw. Which means I'll get the same amount of thrust from each limb during the shot. Which means both limbs will return to brace at practically the same time. Which minimizes shock and vibration, and minimal vibration means minimal noise. Which also means you aren't wasting as much energy on shock and vibration, so where does that energy go? Seems obvious to me the energy has to be going into the arrow!
Also, having the limbs draw equally means the limbs won't be fighting your grip to equalize the poundage difference when you're at full draw. Which means you'll be able to hold aim much steadier on the target.
From my point of view, the ability of being able to easily adjust tiller is one of the compound's major advantages over traditional bows. In fact, I put it's importance second only to let-off. So many benefits, but so few people actually taking advantage of it.
Most guys set their tiller even at each end of the riser and call it good. That'd be fine if the handle was centered in the bows' risers. IT'S NOT! The throat of the grip is a couple of inches below center. Several inches on some bows. Someone using a low wrist grip puts the main pressure of their grip a couple of inches lower than the throat. Visuallize the bow's riser as a lever and the grip as the pivot point. The pivot is offset five to six inches.
That naturally puts more strain on the bottom limb to begin with. The limbs will be unevenly stressed when the bow is drawn.(Instead of 35 pounds top and 35 pounds on bottom to make 70 pounds, you wind up pulling more like 30 pounds on the top and 40 pounds on the bottom to get your 70 pounds of draw. Somewhat exaggerated but that's the idea.) The limbs will deliver uneven thrust when the shot is released. Nock travel will certainly not be 'straight and level' even on a 2-cam bow.
You note how one limb can be made to jump forward more than the other limb as the bow returns to brace during the shot. That's the effect I'm talking about. Ideally, the bow should be tiller adjusted to suit the bow's grip location and the archer's shooting style (high wrist, neutral wrist or low wrist grips put the pressure in different locations in the handle). This will allow both limbs to be under equal stess during the draw and shot and the limbs will return to brace at exactly the same time. If it has not been adjusted properly, the bow will have one limb slamming back to brace before the other. That's what makes one limb kick forward more than the other.
Naturally, this is going to cause more shock, noise and vibration with one bow than another. For instance, try shooting a longbow that isn't tillered properly! WOOF!!! That handshock will run right up your arm to your jaw and you'll swear you had a couple of teeth swap holes.[:-]
It won't be as obvious with a compound as with a longbow, naturally, because of the much greater mass in the compound riser. Among compounds, it's not as obvious with a long riser bow using short parallel limbs as it is on a bow using a short riser and long limbs with conventional limb angle. It's not as obvious, but it's still there. And regardless of what one high end bow manufacturer claims, it's just as present on single cam bows as it is with duals and hybrids.
I set my tiller even to start out. Then I point a pin at a spot on the wall and s-l-o-w-l-y draw the bow straight back. The bow will try to pull the pin up or down. For me and my shooting style, it's usually up. I take a turn off the top limb bolt, add a turn on the bottom limb bolt or both. (Naturally, if the pin is pulling down, I'd take a turn off the bottom limb, add a turn to the top limb, or both.) Then I repeat. I keep doing that until I can draw the bow all the way back and keep the pin from rising or dropping during the draw.
That tells me I'm putting the same amount of energy into each limb during the draw. Which means I'll get the same amount of thrust from each limb during the shot. Which means both limbs will return to brace at practically the same time. Which minimizes shock and vibration, and minimal vibration means minimal noise. Which also means you aren't wasting as much energy on shock and vibration, so where does that energy go? Seems obvious to me the energy has to be going into the arrow!
Also, having the limbs draw equally means the limbs won't be fighting your grip to equalize the poundage difference when you're at full draw. Which means you'll be able to hold aim much steadier on the target.
From my point of view, the ability of being able to easily adjust tiller is one of the compound's major advantages over traditional bows. In fact, I put it's importance second only to let-off. So many benefits, but so few people actually taking advantage of it.
10-26-2006, 09:19 AM
#10
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NC
Posts: 1,284
RE: Questiions about making a bow silent
Thanks Arthur!, thats very interesting and it all makes sense to me.Ilearn something new about archery everyday.
Thanks also for your tiller tuning lesson,i'mgoing togive this a try.
ORIGINAL: Arthur P
I set my tiller even to start out. Then I point a pin at a spot on the wall and s-l-o-w-l-y draw the bow straight back. The bow will try to pull the pin up or down. For me and my shooting style, it's usually up. I take a turn off the top limb bolt, add a turn on the bottom limb bolt or both. (Naturally, if the pin is pulling down, I'd take a turn off the bottom limb, add a turn to the top limb, or both.) Then I repeat. I keep doing that until I can draw the bow all the way back and keep the pin from rising or dropping during the draw.
I set my tiller even to start out. Then I point a pin at a spot on the wall and s-l-o-w-l-y draw the bow straight back. The bow will try to pull the pin up or down. For me and my shooting style, it's usually up. I take a turn off the top limb bolt, add a turn on the bottom limb bolt or both. (Naturally, if the pin is pulling down, I'd take a turn off the bottom limb, add a turn to the top limb, or both.) Then I repeat. I keep doing that until I can draw the bow all the way back and keep the pin from rising or dropping during the draw.