Paul L Mohr

I'm going to comment on two things here, and these are just my opinions.

One, putting your thumb behind your neck is a big no no. If you can do this your draw length is too long, or your release is too long, or both. That is one of the first form problems you should look for when looking at someones set up.

And two, I would advise against the kisser button. I know lots use them, even my best friend uses one because I can't get him to take the thing off. You don't need a kisser button and a peep sight, they are redundant. And the peep actually works better. Kisser buttons are for bows without peep sights. Also the way most set up a kisser button is the wrong way any way. You should not be anchoring it to the corner of your mouth. This is the most inconsistant spot on your face because you can move your mouth the kisser button. If you use one try and anchor it to a tooth or something you can't move. But really all you are doing is adding more weight to your string.

This is what I suggest doing. Have the peep taken out of your bow. Then find a comfortable consistant draw position with numerous anchor points that you can repeat. I lightly touch the string to the tip of my nose, and the string intersects the corner of my mouth (where your kisser button would be) and the fletching of the arrow contacts the point between my bottom lip and my chin. Then I know where my hand contacts my face under my ear.

I actually shoot pretty well without a peep at all this way, but I'm more accurate at longer distances with a peep.

After you do this, have the peep put back in. Then draw the bow with your eyes closed to these anchor points. When you open your eyes the peep should be right there. You should not have to bend your head in or move around to find it. It should just be right there.

And remember while you are doing this your upper body should be directly over your hips, and your back, neck and head straight and aligned. Not leaning back or dipping your head into the string.

When you do all this you will be able to draw your bow and look thru your peep and everything will just fall into place. This is what the peep is suposed to do, but if it isn't set up correctly in the first place you are screwed from the get go.

If I have time later maybe I will post some pics of pros and you can see how they draw and anchor. Or if someone else can do it for me that would be great. I think we used to have a thread like that somewhere, and I know there should be numerous ones AT, but I don't go there anymore, maybe someone that does can put up a link or something.

Good luck,
Paul

Finch

Hmmm...that is really nice to know. I have been doing this ever since I started shooting and I am pretty darn accurate. I think that my draw must be too long then.[&o]

I guess I will live with this thru the season. No sense inchanging now, right?

Paul L Mohr

I started out that way as well, but after I changed it I liked it better. It took some getting used to, but was worth it. It's not always too long of a draw length on the bow either. It can be from a long string loop and or too long of a release. Many have bows that fit them fine, but the release is way too long, effectively making their draw length too long as well. You don't want that hand behind your head!

Quantify "pretty darn accurate" for me. And how long can you shoot before your groups start to get bigger and you have trouble holding steady?

I will admit though there is really no such thing as perfect form. I have seen some people with very odd form shoot amazingly well. The biggest thing is if you can do it the exact same way every time. However drawing the bow too far makes it harder to hold steady, harder to hold at full draw and harder to actually draw.

You will find with a bow that fits it draws smoother for you than one that is too long. If you can't hold your bow out in front of you, look at your target and draw straight back smoothly on the target you are pulling to much weight and or too long of a draw length.

Paul

jerseyhunter

I put the kisser to the corner of my mouth. string to tip of nose. And if I want to look through a peep I'd have to go outand buy one.

Higgy15jh

I say do whatever feels the most comftorable to YOU.. I have always shot with a peep and a "kisser buttion" but instead of a full kisser button,(like what Paul said), it slows it down just that much more i have a tiny bead positoned to fit snug in the corner of my mouth at each draw.

Finch

Paul

I justback from the range. It did take mea while to adjust making my thumb useless on my release hand. It did pullme in closer to the bow. I can't believe that made such a difference.

"Pretty darn accurate" meant that I can consecutively shoot 2 - 2 1/2" groups for a while I guess (20 yards). I can't say that now b/c yesterday and today have been bad for me. I just started going to this range and shooting the targets they have provided. They are throwing my groups off because I have been shooting at a quarter sized dot and they are bigger. I am alsofinding it harder to keep steady and I need to work on my follow through as well. I'm getting frustrated that I'm not shooting like I previously was.

I am off tomorrow so I will continue to work on my form.

Thanks.

**Sorry for hi-jacking the thread

TEmbry

if you find a consistent point that yur knuckle and release touches when you pull back, then you dont need a kisser anyway. They just slow down yur arrow speed, and dont serve that great a purpose. If you dont feel comfortable without one, then by all means use it, because the most important thing is that it feels comfortable to you.

Paul L Mohr

This happens, don't get discuraged. Try some drills like blind and blank bale shooting, and Aiming at a dot, holding for a few seconds and hen letting down. It should get you calmed down some and help you get your shot sequence back in sync.

Also, with a wrist release your hand should be completely relaxed when at full draw, other than your trigger finger.

Thats pretty decent accuracy, but you could be better I bet. In vegas spots you are shooting at a circle about the size of a dime I think. You shoot 30 arrows (sometimes 60) 10 points an arrow for a perfect hit. Some good archers can score between 290 and 300 for a 30 arrow round. I can average around 550 points for a total of 600 points (two rounds, 30 arrows each). Some guys shoot so well they all get 300 points and have to break the ties with how many X's they get.

Paul

Finch

I will work on it some more tomorrow. My groups are better than that sometimes. I've gotten 5 robinhoods so far with this bowtech since June but somedays I'm not so hot.

Another question. Do you pull the trigger with the middle of your index finger? I have shortened my release and that is where my finger was actually pulling the trigger.

I have also convinced myself that I perform worse when there aremore arrows in the target.Isubconciously don't want to hit the same spot in fear of robin hooding another arrow or at least destroying it. I really feel like this happens sometimes( call me crazy). Why not aim at different dots? Easy, I want to see what my groups are like.

Do you think I should leave my 19/1000th pins on there or switch to 29/1000th pins? Or, just put the 29/1000th pin on top for closer yardages.

I am not worried about killing a deer, I can do that. I want to be a tournament level archer.

Thanks and sorry for all the questions.

WindsorArcher

If you want to use a kisser "button", don't use an actual button, or a bead, or worse a nock: use a tied-on kisser. Take some old serving string, and tie some snug but not real tight overhand knots, alternating above and below where you started on the string. Eventually, you'll build up a "button" of string knots. When it's the size you want, finish it with a tight square knot and a little (very little) superglue. Presto! A quiet and extremely light kisser button that you can twist up and down the string for adjustments, and it won't slow down your arrow.

And Paul's right: if you use a kisser, you shouldn't need a peep. I use a tied-on kisser and I do not use a peep. I also set my kisser so that it touches the tip of my nose, not my mouth. As Paul said, your mouth moves, your teeth, nose, etc. don't: so if you use a kisser, don't kiss it.