wayomic

Ok, I just got back into archery with the idea of hunting, after several years of just playing around with my longbow.
I picked up an inexpensive compound bow as my starter but it is a heavier draw and speed set-up.

#1. The problem I'm having is finding arrows of sufficient stiffness for the weight heads I am looking to use.
I started out with Beaman ICS Hunter 340s, but I'm getting a LOT of fishtailing when using anything heavier than 85gr heads. 100gr works OK but still has some wobble. 125gr wags so much you can see it at 15 yards, let alone 50. I want to find a fairly stiff spine arrow to move up my point weight to something in a usable range. Everything I look at seems to top out in the 75lb or 80lb range when using 31" lengths so I have a feeling that I am maxing out the range of the arrows I have.
Add to that, I don't want to spend $$$$$$$ on arrows right now since I may be trying out a few types. I've had someone suggest Carbon Express Terminator Hunters 6075s, but don't want to fork out $50 for 6 just to experiment.

#2. How about vanes, Since I am using a shoot-thru, I have been told by one shop to use Blazer 2" vanes with a Helical, another said no, use Quick-spin set straight. What's is your experience with which will spin & stablize a fixed broadhead best?

Tech data. Bow is 75lb actual draw, 75% let-off, hard single cam, Shoot-thru rest, using a release. Arrow length is 31", though I could shorten up to 30" if needed.

mobow

OK, first, w/ your specs, you need to be shooting 300's, not 340's. Right now you are underspined. I was looking at CX's website and didn't see 7590's?? Is that right? I thought they made a 7590......at any rate, a 6075 isn't stiff enough. You can get the correct spine in aluminum......you would need a 2514 or a 2613.

As far as the wobbling of the arrow, sounds more like a tuning issue. Have you paper tuned the bow, or just picked it up and shot it? If you haven't paper tuned it, that's second on the list after you get the correctly spined arrows. If the bow isn't properly tuned, you could use a tree trunk and it wouldn't help the wobble.

cataway

i would like you to try something i did several years ago .
you will need to get one each of as many arrows of different spine weights as possible in aluminum and carbon. cut them to the proper Leigh .even get some that you think cant possibly work 1916 through 2512
you will find that with a field point they all will fly just about the same .
now put on the broad head,that you intend to use ,spin to check for wobble, you have to be sure that the head is on straight. you will need to shoot at least 30yds to get a proper test .and the one that hits were the feild point hits is the one you should use .
i went in to this test using 2117 i now use 27" 1916 with vanes from a 70lb bow i would of never dreamed that 1916 would work so well .

mobow

You're shooting a 1916 from a 70# bow????????? No offense.......but are you nuts?? I can't believe them babies aren't bending in half at the release. I understand them being only 27" helps........but holy cow.....What is that....like......4.5 grains per pound?

edit: Ok, I mispoke about the weight...a 1916 weighs more than I thought....but it's a spine rating of .623........Holy moly.......Who woulda thought....?

wayomic

Thanks, that's what I thought. The Pro-shop that I bought my stuff at is still thinking that the 340s are more than stiff enough and it's just that I have "technique issues". (in other words, my shooting stinks[:'(] ) I know I am out of practice and do have the occasional slip-up, but I also know that those arrows are still to underspined considering the improvement when I drop the point weight. I guess I was looking for some options on arrows since I am not gettingmuch help from the so-called "pro". FiguredI would just order some shafts online, etc, and rig them up myself. I was hoping to use carbon, but I will switch to alum. if I have to.

As far as being tuned, yes it is, andpaper shot also. Puts a bullethole in paper with the lightest tips. Just likes to fishtail. Like I said, it's almost gone with the 85gr but anything over that it fishtails. And 125s make it look like a dog wagging it's tail. (I just wish that arrow co.s would have a standardized spine-deflection/stiffness chart on their products. Make it alot easier to compare one to another)

And as far as those 6075s, well it was the heaviest and beefiest arrow I found on the products available at one of the shops I stopped at.
(and again, I will shoot aluminum if I have to, but I was hoping to avoid those baseball bat sized shafts that the have for heavier bows)

Thanks for the info though.

wayomic

OK, after a few calls, alot of web-surfing (and use of an inexpensivedraw-weigth calculator )I finally got a lead on some makes of carbon arrow to use on the heavier draw weigth. Of course more than a few of them are in the $120-$180 per dozen price range, which is WAAAY out of budget for me.
BUT I found that, Yes I should be using AT LEAST .300 spines when you adjust for weight, draw, cam, etc, etc. (hats off to mobowhuntr. Thanks)
I still may have to shorten up to fix the problem completly, but it's a start.

On that note, besides the Beman and Easton shafts, (I've heard more than a fewtalk about inconsistancy and weakness on some of their shafts), anyone know of brands that would fit the bill?
I saw a listing for a company by the name of Blackhawk that had ones in the spine I'm looking for at a relatively cheap "testing out a few types" price. Any others?

mobow

Um, now this right here makes no sense to me. It can't possibly be fishtailing AND tearing a perfect bullet hole......can't. Have you shot through paper at varying distance, or just right up close? Think about it....if the arrow is fishtailing, it's moving right to left......how can it tear a perfect hole in paper if the nock is waving at you????? It can't. Period.

300's will fix some of it, but most likely you're torquing the grip. That'll do it everytime. Easton and Beman make some very, very fine arrows, thank you. Specifically, the Axis is very good, as is the Black Max. Of course, A/C/C's are about as good as it gets.....but I would guess them to be out of your budget, which is ok. We'll get ya hooked up here.

OK, arrows. Like I mentioned, the Axis is good, Beman ICS Hunters are incredible, and at avery good price. Check them out. Gold Tip makes good arrows, Carbon Express, Carbon Tech, shoot, just about any makes a good arrow.

TEXAS 10PT

First off.. if you are actually seeing your arrows fishtailing then you have a very bad habit with your form because you are "peeking" at the shot. Let me ask you...are you shooting at an indoor range when you are seeing this "fishtailing"? If so I guarantee you that you are seeing an optical illusion because when your arrow travels down the shooting lane there will be a point where the lights hit off your fletching causing you to think they are fishtailing. When you shoot 20 or 30 yards do your arrows hit where you are aiming? Are they going into the target straight?. Only reason I'm asking you these questions is because I thought at one time my arrows were doing the same as you describe when essence they weren't. As far as your spine, I think the 340 spine would be good but you would need to cut your arrows down to between 29-30 inches and shoot 100 gr tips. Hope this helps.

wayomic

No, I didn't paper shoot it myself. It was done at the shop after I put on the rest, etc. I know I may be part of the problem, but....
It's strange how the fishtail almost completly disappeared as soon as I dropped the point weight down. I can understand that what is left of it is probably inconsistency on my part and I can shoot what I have, if I want to stick with 85gr max. I just want to get the same stability at a higher point weight.
I just havetheshop guy who insists that ICS Hunter 340s are MORE than enough, even with31" shaftsout of a75lb hard cam bow. Even according to the manufactorer sheets I've looked at that is pushing the edge of the limit.
I guess I was just wondering who is correct, and what I could do.
(besides practice, I AM doing that.)

wayomic

I'm shooting outside. I'm was seeing the fishtailing at 25 yards, in part because I caught it with my off-side eye as I follow thru with the hold.
Then to make sure, when my brother was over I had him standing behind me while I was shooting. The shafts are sticking with a slight cant, MAINLY one was at a given distance, but not all the same. So at 25 yards, most of them have a slight left cant, some more of one, some straight into the target, some canted to the right. Now that is with the 125gr points. With 85s they are pretty much straight in. And 31" puts the end of the shaft itself even with the front of the riser. (LOOONG arms)