Diamond versus Bowtech
11-03-2002, 08:03 AM
#21
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: .. NH USA
Posts: 970
RE: Diamond versus Bowtech
DaveC-
My crystal ball doesn't have that definitive answer on the Diamond release,<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> but I would assume any new items will be released in time for the AMO show in Indy in January.
As far as the Brute-force, IMO it's like this-- High Country is kinda "up-in-the-air" right now. Spencer Land turned the reigns over to Ed McPherson as president, but then all of a sudden Ed left for CSS. HMMMM. There hasn't been a new website upgrade since 2001, and sales have dropped considerably. I used to shoot High Country way back in the "early days", and they built some excellent, extremely accurate equipment, and were unquestionably on the top of the heap. Then they got all wrapped up in that " super-light, split-limb, perimeter solocam" thing, and I haven't seen much from them in recent years that gets my blood pumping except the carbon riser stuff that they bought from Diamond, but as stated they haven't really done much with. Everyone who was anyone on the shooting staff left, even Burley Hall, who I assumed was a "lifer", and now they are not even a force for other manufacturers to worry about on the market. Sad. Their equipment seems to have "slid" along with the popularity, and IMO they would be much better off offering only a couple of designs for a few years until they get back on "track".(easier to keep up with and determine what will best sell) Personally, I think you can do better at this point, especially not knowing where they stand, or if they are even going to be around in the next year or two should you have any warranty issues to contend with later down the road. Just my own thoughts, Pinwheel 12
My crystal ball doesn't have that definitive answer on the Diamond release,<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> but I would assume any new items will be released in time for the AMO show in Indy in January.
As far as the Brute-force, IMO it's like this-- High Country is kinda "up-in-the-air" right now. Spencer Land turned the reigns over to Ed McPherson as president, but then all of a sudden Ed left for CSS. HMMMM. There hasn't been a new website upgrade since 2001, and sales have dropped considerably. I used to shoot High Country way back in the "early days", and they built some excellent, extremely accurate equipment, and were unquestionably on the top of the heap. Then they got all wrapped up in that " super-light, split-limb, perimeter solocam" thing, and I haven't seen much from them in recent years that gets my blood pumping except the carbon riser stuff that they bought from Diamond, but as stated they haven't really done much with. Everyone who was anyone on the shooting staff left, even Burley Hall, who I assumed was a "lifer", and now they are not even a force for other manufacturers to worry about on the market. Sad. Their equipment seems to have "slid" along with the popularity, and IMO they would be much better off offering only a couple of designs for a few years until they get back on "track".(easier to keep up with and determine what will best sell) Personally, I think you can do better at this point, especially not knowing where they stand, or if they are even going to be around in the next year or two should you have any warranty issues to contend with later down the road. Just my own thoughts, Pinwheel 12
11-03-2002, 08:44 AM
#22
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 3,058
RE: Diamond versus Bowtech
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
DaveC-
As far as the Brute-force, IMO it's like this-- High Country is kinda "up-in-the-air" right now. Spencer Land turned the reigns over to Ed McPherson as president, but then all of a sudden Ed left for CSS. HMMMM. There hasn't been a new website upgrade since 2001, and sales have dropped considerably. I used to shoot High Country way back in the "early days", and they built some excellent, extremely accurate equipment, and were unquestionably on the top of the heap. Then they got all wrapped up in that " super-light, split-limb, perimeter solocam" thing, and I haven't seen much from them in recent years that gets my blood pumping except the carbon riser stuff that they bought from Diamond, but as stated they haven't really done much with. Everyone who was anyone on the shooting staff left, even Burley Hall, who I assumed was a "lifer", and now they are not even a force for other manufacturers to worry about on the market. Sad. Their equipment seems to have "slid" along with the popularity, and IMO they would be much better off offering only a couple of designs for a few years until they get back on "track".(easier to keep up with and determine what will best sell) Personally, I think you can do better at this point, especially not knowing where they stand, or if they are even going to be around in the next year or two should you have any warranty issues to contend with later down the road. Just my own thoughts, Pinwheel 12
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Gotta agree with Pinwheel 110% re: HCA. My experience is exactly the same as his, as I was big HCA fan/dealer in the early to mid 90's. I too was "shocked" when Burley (my fave 3D shooter ever)left.In addition I did one of my Long, Boring Reviews on the Brute Force Elite..you might want to do a search for it. The BF is a nice shooting bow, but the QC on my model was pretty bad. Caveat Emptor!
JeffB
DaveC-
As far as the Brute-force, IMO it's like this-- High Country is kinda "up-in-the-air" right now. Spencer Land turned the reigns over to Ed McPherson as president, but then all of a sudden Ed left for CSS. HMMMM. There hasn't been a new website upgrade since 2001, and sales have dropped considerably. I used to shoot High Country way back in the "early days", and they built some excellent, extremely accurate equipment, and were unquestionably on the top of the heap. Then they got all wrapped up in that " super-light, split-limb, perimeter solocam" thing, and I haven't seen much from them in recent years that gets my blood pumping except the carbon riser stuff that they bought from Diamond, but as stated they haven't really done much with. Everyone who was anyone on the shooting staff left, even Burley Hall, who I assumed was a "lifer", and now they are not even a force for other manufacturers to worry about on the market. Sad. Their equipment seems to have "slid" along with the popularity, and IMO they would be much better off offering only a couple of designs for a few years until they get back on "track".(easier to keep up with and determine what will best sell) Personally, I think you can do better at this point, especially not knowing where they stand, or if they are even going to be around in the next year or two should you have any warranty issues to contend with later down the road. Just my own thoughts, Pinwheel 12
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Gotta agree with Pinwheel 110% re: HCA. My experience is exactly the same as his, as I was big HCA fan/dealer in the early to mid 90's. I too was "shocked" when Burley (my fave 3D shooter ever)left.In addition I did one of my Long, Boring Reviews on the Brute Force Elite..you might want to do a search for it. The BF is a nice shooting bow, but the QC on my model was pretty bad. Caveat Emptor!
JeffB
11-03-2002, 09:04 AM
#23
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 361
RE: Diamond versus Bowtech
I got a chance to shot the stinger this weekend and first impressions of the bow was I liked the grip much better than my Patriot but it was just to light for my taste, I like for a bow to weigh around 4lbs bare bow. just my own preferance. When I shot it I thought D@mn I am holding a jackhammer in my hand, it had so much vibration my teeth didn't stop chantering for 10 mins. I think you could tame it some with limb savers and stabilizer. It had string silencers and a nock. When I shot it, it sounded loud but when someone else shot it the noise not as bad from a distance or 5 feet. I have not shot the Tech29 but my brothers Mighty Mite is faster, not as noisy, and does not have near as much Vibration, but the MM has a little more kick on the shot than the stinger. The stinger was a 60lb model max out to 61lbs and the MM was a 70lb model set on 63lbs. I hope the shop get some more of there bows in so I can shot them but I will bet the Patriot DC will be in my arsenal next spring.
11-03-2002, 10:00 AM
#24
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Crosby TX USA
Posts: 2,599
RE: Diamond versus Bowtech
Pinwheel 12 & JefB,
Thanks for the honest responses on the high country. I was reading searched post on HC while these replies were being made and was wondering about the longevity of the company if no one wants to run it. I guess the lifetime warranty is only good for the life of the company.
So is the present longevity of Diamondarcheryinc. a good one?
Bigcountry25, thanks your insight of the stinger. I must say it's not the review I was hoping for. It's lower ata was scaring me off allready. But the vibration of the shot would not seem to be an atribute of the ata as much as it would the design of the bow which might be present in the rest of their lineup.
I guess I really need to shoot one before buying, but hate to visit the shop just to "check it out" because the guy running the place is a little more "helpfull" than I care for. I guess there's a fine line between too much help and not enough. He's on the wrong side of too much, won't let me look without playing 20 questions with him. And the desperate "please buy one" look in his eyes- oh the pain.
Hope those coments don't offend any shop owners helping me here, any advice on how to try out a bow without feeling obligated to buy it afterwords?
Thanks for the honest responses on the high country. I was reading searched post on HC while these replies were being made and was wondering about the longevity of the company if no one wants to run it. I guess the lifetime warranty is only good for the life of the company.
So is the present longevity of Diamondarcheryinc. a good one?
Bigcountry25, thanks your insight of the stinger. I must say it's not the review I was hoping for. It's lower ata was scaring me off allready. But the vibration of the shot would not seem to be an atribute of the ata as much as it would the design of the bow which might be present in the rest of their lineup.
I guess I really need to shoot one before buying, but hate to visit the shop just to "check it out" because the guy running the place is a little more "helpfull" than I care for. I guess there's a fine line between too much help and not enough. He's on the wrong side of too much, won't let me look without playing 20 questions with him. And the desperate "please buy one" look in his eyes- oh the pain.
Hope those coments don't offend any shop owners helping me here, any advice on how to try out a bow without feeling obligated to buy it afterwords?
11-03-2002, 12:25 PM
#25
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lehigh County PA USA
Posts: 12,157
RE: Diamond versus Bowtech
I have to admit that you folks have me interested in that Freedom bow. I might have to chalk that up as number three to try for this year...uhh, but that is a Pearson not a Diamond. Which Diamond bow would be a good choice to try for the upcoming year? <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
...and please do ignore what Pinwheel12 said about Hoyt....Jealousy is a terrible thing...<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle>
...and please do ignore what Pinwheel12 said about Hoyt....Jealousy is a terrible thing...<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle>
11-03-2002, 01:39 PM
#26
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: .. NH USA
Posts: 970
RE: Diamond versus Bowtech
Sorry Frank, I was forced into it! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> <img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle> <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Jealous? Nah, I have a fleet of Merlins surrounding me, no reason to be jealous here! LOL.
Dave C-
I can honestly say I haven't found the Diamond bows to have much vibration, including the stinger. Certainly no more so than other bows of the same configuration. One thing to consider is that on any solocam bow, if a cam is out of correct rotation, it will fire with more vibration than one with correct positioning. This could've been the case with BigCountry25. (either that, or he's just a Bowtech "plant" like Jeff and Matt and BTS! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>)
As far as your shop owner being overzealous, tell him that you are there to look, and may not be buying anything yet. This normally calms them down. I as a dealer don't pester people at all,I ask if they need help with anything, and let them know I or the staff are available, but let them do their own thing. I do find that after opening communications with customers that they are much more apt to ask questions, and possibly the shop owner was merely trying to do something similar. Hard to know without being there myself, but give him the benefit of doubt unless you know for sure he doesn't know what he's talking about. Normally if they've been in business any length of time they are doing something right. If they've only been open a short time, then the answer is right there as to his actions.
As far as which Diamond to look at, I personally would look at either the the DOA, (33" with 7" brace) or for those who like a longer ATA, the Widowmaker (38" with 8" brace).
Of course, if you want to look at what I consider some of the finest bows on the planet, you simply must check out the Merlin line! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Good shooting, Pinwheel 12
Edited by - Pinwheel 12 on 11/03/2002 14:41:51
Dave C-
I can honestly say I haven't found the Diamond bows to have much vibration, including the stinger. Certainly no more so than other bows of the same configuration. One thing to consider is that on any solocam bow, if a cam is out of correct rotation, it will fire with more vibration than one with correct positioning. This could've been the case with BigCountry25. (either that, or he's just a Bowtech "plant" like Jeff and Matt and BTS! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>)
As far as your shop owner being overzealous, tell him that you are there to look, and may not be buying anything yet. This normally calms them down. I as a dealer don't pester people at all,I ask if they need help with anything, and let them know I or the staff are available, but let them do their own thing. I do find that after opening communications with customers that they are much more apt to ask questions, and possibly the shop owner was merely trying to do something similar. Hard to know without being there myself, but give him the benefit of doubt unless you know for sure he doesn't know what he's talking about. Normally if they've been in business any length of time they are doing something right. If they've only been open a short time, then the answer is right there as to his actions.
As far as which Diamond to look at, I personally would look at either the the DOA, (33" with 7" brace) or for those who like a longer ATA, the Widowmaker (38" with 8" brace).
Of course, if you want to look at what I consider some of the finest bows on the planet, you simply must check out the Merlin line! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Good shooting, Pinwheel 12
Edited by - Pinwheel 12 on 11/03/2002 14:41:51
11-03-2002, 02:05 PM
#27
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Crosby TX USA
Posts: 2,599
RE: Diamond versus Bowtech
Pinwheel 12 , thanks soo much for the long replies. I find your information very helpful.
I wouldn't say the shop owner doesn't know what "he talking about" but last week while he was trying to sell me on the Highcountry he said "you know who the president of highcountry is don't ya? It's Ed Mcpherson....you know who he is right?" So I guess he is a little out of the loop.
He does have a DOA in stock, but I was looking fo a little more forgiveness than the 7" brace height. Maybe thats plenty.
I wonder if the 7.5" brace height of the hornet = the same forgiveness of the 7" on the DOA due to it's longer ATA.
Thanks again for all the help.
Edited by - DaveC on 11/04/2002 05:32:34
I wouldn't say the shop owner doesn't know what "he talking about" but last week while he was trying to sell me on the Highcountry he said "you know who the president of highcountry is don't ya? It's Ed Mcpherson....you know who he is right?" So I guess he is a little out of the loop.
He does have a DOA in stock, but I was looking fo a little more forgiveness than the 7" brace height. Maybe thats plenty.
I wonder if the 7.5" brace height of the hornet = the same forgiveness of the 7" on the DOA due to it's longer ATA.
Thanks again for all the help.
Edited by - DaveC on 11/04/2002 05:32:34
11-03-2002, 02:17 PM
#28
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 3,058
RE: Diamond versus Bowtech
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
(either that, or he's just a Bowtech "plant" like Jeff and Matt and BTS! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>)
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Yes, and I need watering! twice a day!
And I like to be talked to...it helps me grow.
Now back to the subject. I don't care who makes it..a sub 30" bow with that low of a brace has GOT to have some shock...the T-29 has some shock too..I don't find that hard to believe regarding the diamond.
JeffB <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
JeffB <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
(either that, or he's just a Bowtech "plant" like Jeff and Matt and BTS! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>)
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Yes, and I need watering! twice a day!
And I like to be talked to...it helps me grow.
Now back to the subject. I don't care who makes it..a sub 30" bow with that low of a brace has GOT to have some shock...the T-29 has some shock too..I don't find that hard to believe regarding the diamond.
JeffB <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
JeffB <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
11-03-2002, 03:30 PM
#30
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 3,058
RE: Diamond versus Bowtech
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Stinger = 8 3/8 = low brace height?
Man I've got a lot to lean, I thought that was a high brace height.
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My mistake..I was thinking the 7" brace was on the Stinger..however that is the DOA model.
JeffB <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Stinger = 8 3/8 = low brace height?
Man I've got a lot to lean, I thought that was a high brace height.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
My mistake..I was thinking the 7" brace was on the Stinger..however that is the DOA model.
JeffB <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>