I really need some help with my set-up, for deer
10-30-2002, 10:22 PM
#1
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rural Kansas... Where Life is Good
Posts: 4,139
I really need some help with my set-up, for deer
right now I'm using a PSE NOva, about 5-6 years old. 59lbs peak weight, Carbon arrows 300's, 75 gain broadheads, and I believe 30" arrows. My problem is that ever since I switched from alluminum arrows with 90 grain broadheads to this lighter and faster arrows, i've been having a problem with arrow penetration. I've also switched from fixed to mechanical broadheads mainly because I hunt a lot in the open and do a fair amt. of shooting at deer in the gusty Kansas winds.
Last season I arrowed 3 deer, all lungers, under 25yards and not one arrow had a complete passthrough. Tonight I arrowed a doe under 20 yards on the top end of her lungs, from the ground, and it had fletching and broadhead sticking out of each side of the deer. The deer didn't start bleeding until about about 40-50 yards after I arrowed her and like the other deer, the blood sign was very thin. I really need a complete passthrough on these deer, mainly so I can have a blood trail to follow. With my earlier set-up with alluminum arrows and fixed broadheads I always had a complete passthrough, even out near 40 yards. What changes can I make to ge a complete passthrough, without changing back to alluminum? Thanks for the help.
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Edited by - kshunter on 11/01/2002 22:57:17
Last season I arrowed 3 deer, all lungers, under 25yards and not one arrow had a complete passthrough. Tonight I arrowed a doe under 20 yards on the top end of her lungs, from the ground, and it had fletching and broadhead sticking out of each side of the deer. The deer didn't start bleeding until about about 40-50 yards after I arrowed her and like the other deer, the blood sign was very thin. I really need a complete passthrough on these deer, mainly so I can have a blood trail to follow. With my earlier set-up with alluminum arrows and fixed broadheads I always had a complete passthrough, even out near 40 yards. What changes can I make to ge a complete passthrough, without changing back to alluminum? Thanks for the help.
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Edited by - kshunter on 11/01/2002 22:57:17
10-30-2002, 10:29 PM
#2
RE: I really need some help with my set-up, for deer
Here in Washington mechanical broadheads are not legal but I have read many threads on the subject the one comment that I saw most od was a lack of penetration and passthroughs with mechanicals. I stayed with aluminum arrows and 100gr Thunderheads and always get passthroughs.
My favorite motto is "If it ain't broke don't fix it" . . . unless you're the Federal Government! Although I need reminding every now and then.
Bowhunter
My favorite motto is "If it ain't broke don't fix it" . . . unless you're the Federal Government! Although I need reminding every now and then.
Bowhunter
10-30-2002, 10:32 PM
#3
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dover, PA USA
Posts: 5,497
RE: I really need some help with my set-up, for deer
The problem may very well be the TYPE of mechanical head you are using, but other contributing factors such as tuning might need to be looked at.
First off......there are very few and I mean DARN few mechanical heads I would shoot from a 59# PSE NOVA. Not knocking your bow......it just doesn't lend itself to being a good candidate for mechanical heads in general due to the energy it is probably putting out. Some mechanical heads require very little additional KE vs. fixed heads, while some styles require quite a bit more.
I can only speculate on energy levels, but I don't imagine them being too high.........Do you happen to know your arrow weight, and speed? Not guesses.......actual chronoed speed?
And also what brand and model mechanical are you trying to shoot.
This info will help us give you better advice about how to proceed.
Edited by - Matt / PA on 10/30/2002 23:33:43
First off......there are very few and I mean DARN few mechanical heads I would shoot from a 59# PSE NOVA. Not knocking your bow......it just doesn't lend itself to being a good candidate for mechanical heads in general due to the energy it is probably putting out. Some mechanical heads require very little additional KE vs. fixed heads, while some styles require quite a bit more.
I can only speculate on energy levels, but I don't imagine them being too high.........Do you happen to know your arrow weight, and speed? Not guesses.......actual chronoed speed?
And also what brand and model mechanical are you trying to shoot.
This info will help us give you better advice about how to proceed.
Edited by - Matt / PA on 10/30/2002 23:33:43
10-30-2002, 10:51 PM
#4
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rural Kansas... Where Life is Good
Posts: 4,139
RE: I really need some help with my set-up, for deer
My arrows are 7.8 gains per inch. and I have 30" arrows. So my arrows are 234 gains plus 70 grain broadheads for total of 304 grains. I'm not for sure on the type of braodheads I have, I bought them last eyar, I beleive they were rockets though. I have no idea what my fps is. That's about all the info I know.
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11-01-2002, 06:42 PM
#5
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rural Kansas... Where Life is Good
Posts: 4,139
11-01-2002, 07:46 PM
#6
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Greenville SC USA
Posts: 656
RE: I really need some help with my set-up, for deer
Go back to the heavier arrow. Speed ain't what it's all cracked up to be when bowhunting. Were you missing at longer distances before? 20 additional FPS will not make up for misjudging yardage. I've never used mech BH's, but from what I heard, they work better with a heavier arrow. Ask around. Good luck.
11-01-2002, 08:16 PM
#7
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dover, PA USA
Posts: 5,497
RE: I really need some help with my set-up, for deer
KShunter,
Wow.......OK I'm gonna do my best to help here without coming across as preaching (it's gonna sound like it tho, and I'm not trying to make a Peter out of ya)
But there are a few things that need to be addressed, that sort of disturb me.
First off.......learn your set-up INSIDE AND OUT. You have a computer which is a complex piece of equipment and have taken the time learn how to use it and to post over 1700 times on this site. Yet when an animals life is on the line at your hands you pretty much know nothing about what your bow can do other than aluminums passed thru.......carbons didn't. The BEST bowhunters can recite numbers to you about their equipment like they were gospel......you don't NEED to get that deep (it helps), but you should know the basics.......its ALL right here on this site in those thousands of posts by your fellow members.
On to your set-up......Its light, in fact VERY light in both speed and energy. Not even knowing what arrows you have or what make and model broadheads you are using is embarrassing ....seriously. Think about that.
I know of no 70gr mechanical broadheads, you stated they may be Rockets so if that's the case chances are you are using Rocket Miniblasters 75gr w/ a 1 3/4" cut. An awesome broadhead for deer........JUST NOT FOR YOU! In fact if I were to pick the top 5 WORST broadheads for you to be using that might be in the top 5. This style head and size cutting diameter needs excess energy to perform properly......energy you can't spare.
I'm not even going to go into which heads for which bows, what types of mechanicals are good etc etc, because you should not be using ANY mechanical broadheads. Get them out of your head completely......wind, no wind Hurricanes Tornados whatever. They are not the right choice for your set-up and you've been very lucky so far that you don't have a few wounded and unrecovered animals under your belt. You need more consistency in the performance of a broadhead and one that promotes the most penetration possible.
You should be shooting fixed blade broadheads, or even better possibly a cut on contact head like a Magnus 2 blade ,or Steelforce etc. If you want consistent pass thrus with what you have this is the ONLY way to go. Especially considering the size of the deer you have there in Kansas.<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>
Your carbons will pass thru just fine; your arrows aren't the problem, you just need the right broadhead to go with them.
Oh and your arrows don't weigh 304 grs......unless you are shooting them without fletching, a nock, or insert, which could make things much harder than they need to be. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
Chances are your finished arrow weight is closer to 360grs or so.
You should be OK with that arrow weight with your bows draw weight.....just go back to your 90gr fixed head or something similar.....Thunderheads, Muzzy, etc or one of the heads I mentioned earlier and make sure they are razor sharp. Practice with them, spin test them and get them tuned and grouping well.
I sincerely hope you take the time in your next 1700 posts to start understanding more about the technical side of Bowhunting. The more you know about your equipment and what it will do for you, the more confidence you will have in your abilities with it.
Keep asking questions, learn all the terminology and how things work......I will always be willing to help if I can as will others.
Good luck and throw those mechanicals away, or send them to me.......I could use them.
Edited by - Matt / PA on 11/01/2002 21:21:55
Wow.......OK I'm gonna do my best to help here without coming across as preaching (it's gonna sound like it tho, and I'm not trying to make a Peter out of ya)
But there are a few things that need to be addressed, that sort of disturb me.
First off.......learn your set-up INSIDE AND OUT. You have a computer which is a complex piece of equipment and have taken the time learn how to use it and to post over 1700 times on this site. Yet when an animals life is on the line at your hands you pretty much know nothing about what your bow can do other than aluminums passed thru.......carbons didn't. The BEST bowhunters can recite numbers to you about their equipment like they were gospel......you don't NEED to get that deep (it helps), but you should know the basics.......its ALL right here on this site in those thousands of posts by your fellow members.
On to your set-up......Its light, in fact VERY light in both speed and energy. Not even knowing what arrows you have or what make and model broadheads you are using is embarrassing ....seriously. Think about that.
I know of no 70gr mechanical broadheads, you stated they may be Rockets so if that's the case chances are you are using Rocket Miniblasters 75gr w/ a 1 3/4" cut. An awesome broadhead for deer........JUST NOT FOR YOU! In fact if I were to pick the top 5 WORST broadheads for you to be using that might be in the top 5. This style head and size cutting diameter needs excess energy to perform properly......energy you can't spare.
I'm not even going to go into which heads for which bows, what types of mechanicals are good etc etc, because you should not be using ANY mechanical broadheads. Get them out of your head completely......wind, no wind Hurricanes Tornados whatever. They are not the right choice for your set-up and you've been very lucky so far that you don't have a few wounded and unrecovered animals under your belt. You need more consistency in the performance of a broadhead and one that promotes the most penetration possible.
You should be shooting fixed blade broadheads, or even better possibly a cut on contact head like a Magnus 2 blade ,or Steelforce etc. If you want consistent pass thrus with what you have this is the ONLY way to go. Especially considering the size of the deer you have there in Kansas.<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>
Your carbons will pass thru just fine; your arrows aren't the problem, you just need the right broadhead to go with them.
Oh and your arrows don't weigh 304 grs......unless you are shooting them without fletching, a nock, or insert, which could make things much harder than they need to be. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
Chances are your finished arrow weight is closer to 360grs or so.
You should be OK with that arrow weight with your bows draw weight.....just go back to your 90gr fixed head or something similar.....Thunderheads, Muzzy, etc or one of the heads I mentioned earlier and make sure they are razor sharp. Practice with them, spin test them and get them tuned and grouping well.
I sincerely hope you take the time in your next 1700 posts to start understanding more about the technical side of Bowhunting. The more you know about your equipment and what it will do for you, the more confidence you will have in your abilities with it.
Keep asking questions, learn all the terminology and how things work......I will always be willing to help if I can as will others.
Good luck and throw those mechanicals away, or send them to me.......I could use them.
Edited by - Matt / PA on 11/01/2002 21:21:55
11-01-2002, 08:28 PM
#8
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Whitetail Ridge Iowa
Posts: 949
RE: I really need some help with my set-up, for deer
Without knowing how fast your bow is shooting and
exactly how much your complete arrow (inc. nock,
inserts, vanes/feathers) weighs you/we can't figure
your KE. From what you have told us, especially
the lack of penetration you are getting, I'd
say it's safe to say you are not generating enough
KE for the BH you are using. I'd recommend going
back to a good fixed blade with a smaller cutting
diameter, like 1". We get a lot of wind here in
Iowa and the Muzzy 4-blade 100 gr. w/a 1" cut
flies great for me. Some of the guys at my bowshop
have taken some deer this fall w/Rocket's new fixed
blade w/a 7/8" cut. They all raved about how they
flew like field points...I shot a few arrows with
one and was very impressed, as they hit right w/my
field points. The small cutting diameter has less
blade surface, therefor less planing in the wind.
When you have some time, stop by your bowshop and
weigh your hunting arrows and shoot through the
chrono to get your arrow speed. This info will
be invaluable to you and the setup you use for
hunting.
TB
exactly how much your complete arrow (inc. nock,
inserts, vanes/feathers) weighs you/we can't figure
your KE. From what you have told us, especially
the lack of penetration you are getting, I'd
say it's safe to say you are not generating enough
KE for the BH you are using. I'd recommend going
back to a good fixed blade with a smaller cutting
diameter, like 1". We get a lot of wind here in
Iowa and the Muzzy 4-blade 100 gr. w/a 1" cut
flies great for me. Some of the guys at my bowshop
have taken some deer this fall w/Rocket's new fixed
blade w/a 7/8" cut. They all raved about how they
flew like field points...I shot a few arrows with
one and was very impressed, as they hit right w/my
field points. The small cutting diameter has less
blade surface, therefor less planing in the wind.
When you have some time, stop by your bowshop and
weigh your hunting arrows and shoot through the
chrono to get your arrow speed. This info will
be invaluable to you and the setup you use for
hunting.
TB
11-01-2002, 09:56 PM
#9
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rural Kansas... Where Life is Good
Posts: 4,139
RE: I really need some help with my set-up, for deer
A little more info on my arrow. I shoot CX Hunter 300, Carbon Express, 3" vertical vanes, with small, I beleive ultra-nocks, 75 grain, 3 bladed broadheads(still can't remember the type for sure, probably the mini-blasters) I bought all this stuff for my bow from last year, when I don't have the packages, models and brands slip my mind. My bow has dual cams, solid limbs, along with string leeches. Any of this info help? I'll go into work early this week, and maybe some of my buddies from the Cabelas archery dept, can measure my speed and total arrow weight. I beleive I'll buy some fixed bladed broadheads for sure though. I'll just have to compensate for the wind factor on the longer shots.
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11-01-2002, 10:58 PM
#10
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dover, PA USA
Posts: 5,497
RE: I really need some help with my set-up, for deer
Good start KS, Good luck and shoot a big one......things should be heating up pretty good out there I would imagine.
Knowledge is power brother!......shoot straight.
Knowledge is power brother!......shoot straight.