OK JeffB, PInwheel12 and other arrow guru's
10-25-2002, 08:44 PM
#11
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Klamath Falls, Or
Posts: 300
RE: OK JeffB, PInwheel12 and other arrow guru's
Pinwheel 12
Very interesting information! I well be experimenting with the information you provided.
JeffB
The drama continues. I tested all the combinations I posted earlier that shot bullet holes without any bow tuning. Here are the results with the Hooter Shooter at range, all groups are 5 arrows, groups measured from center to center (like you would in a rifle competition.) Weather: Clear 32 to 55 degrees F. (Took the better part of the day) Wind: none to speak of. Elevation: 4300
Matrix (27.5, 100g tip)
20yd- great grouping had to remove each arrow before I shot another.
30yd- groups began to open up. Shot 1.5 group
40yd- groups 1 smaller than 30yd. to me indicates a spine problem.
ACC (27.75, 125g tip)
20yd- great grouping had to remove each arrow before I shot another.
30yd- groups <0.5 still very tight. Removed arrows before next shot because they were shooting so good
40yd- groups <1 still very tight.
Over all this was the best grouping setup out of the bunch. Speed 280fps
ICS400 (29, 100g and 125g)
20yd- great grouping had to remove each arrow before I shot another.
30yd- groups <1 still tight good flight
40yd- groups 1.25 still good results. I would defiantly consider this setup for hunting, or general shooting purposes. Defiantly a less expensive alternative to the ACC shafts. Tip weights really didnt affect the accuracy. 125g was a tiny bit tighter than 100g tip at 40yd.
GT5575 (29, 100g and 125g)
20yd- great grouping had to remove each arrow before I shot another.
30yd- groups <1 still tight good flight
40yd- groups 1.25 still good results. I would defiantly consider this setup for hunting, or general shooting purposes. Defiantly a less expensive alternative to the ACC shafts. Near identical results as ICS400s. The only difference is these shafts liked the 100g tips slightly better than the 125g tip.
ICS340 (29, 125g tip)
20yd- great grouping had to remove each arrow before I shot another.
30yd- groups 1 still tight good flight
40yd- groups 1.375 still good results. I would defiantly consider this setup for hunting, or general shooting purposes. These shafts seemed a little stiff, dont know why they should spine pretty good in my setup. Slightly better results with 125g tip than 100g so I posted them..
2314 (28 100g)
20yd- great grouping had to remove each arrow before I shot another.
30yd- groups <1 still tight good flight
40yd- groups 1.375 still good results. These shot great! A close second to the ACC shaft much less money.
I did test several other arrow configurations that didnt shoot quite as good. The 2314 is the only shaft that didnt shoot a perfect hole from the gate, but shot great at all ranges. I did shoot all arrows myself to confer results. I found the ACC, ICS400, and 2314 shafts gave me the best groups.
What I still dont get is the ACC shaft that should be way underspined for my setup shot the best in both the Hooter and in my hand. I have some more of those shafts cut to that spec to play with. According to every chart and my gut I think the 3-49 would be a better match. When I get a hold of some I will test them and post the results. As it looks now though I will shoot the 3-39s
On a side note. We entered bow information into Archers Advantage about my bow by taking direct measurements (which are slightly different than factory specs). After all the input the program spit out the ACC setup as optimum. INTERESTING!!!
What do you all think?
>>>----Andrew---->
Very interesting information! I well be experimenting with the information you provided.
JeffB
The drama continues. I tested all the combinations I posted earlier that shot bullet holes without any bow tuning. Here are the results with the Hooter Shooter at range, all groups are 5 arrows, groups measured from center to center (like you would in a rifle competition.) Weather: Clear 32 to 55 degrees F. (Took the better part of the day) Wind: none to speak of. Elevation: 4300
Matrix (27.5, 100g tip)
20yd- great grouping had to remove each arrow before I shot another.
30yd- groups began to open up. Shot 1.5 group
40yd- groups 1 smaller than 30yd. to me indicates a spine problem.
ACC (27.75, 125g tip)
20yd- great grouping had to remove each arrow before I shot another.
30yd- groups <0.5 still very tight. Removed arrows before next shot because they were shooting so good
40yd- groups <1 still very tight.
Over all this was the best grouping setup out of the bunch. Speed 280fps
ICS400 (29, 100g and 125g)
20yd- great grouping had to remove each arrow before I shot another.
30yd- groups <1 still tight good flight
40yd- groups 1.25 still good results. I would defiantly consider this setup for hunting, or general shooting purposes. Defiantly a less expensive alternative to the ACC shafts. Tip weights really didnt affect the accuracy. 125g was a tiny bit tighter than 100g tip at 40yd.
GT5575 (29, 100g and 125g)
20yd- great grouping had to remove each arrow before I shot another.
30yd- groups <1 still tight good flight
40yd- groups 1.25 still good results. I would defiantly consider this setup for hunting, or general shooting purposes. Defiantly a less expensive alternative to the ACC shafts. Near identical results as ICS400s. The only difference is these shafts liked the 100g tips slightly better than the 125g tip.
ICS340 (29, 125g tip)
20yd- great grouping had to remove each arrow before I shot another.
30yd- groups 1 still tight good flight
40yd- groups 1.375 still good results. I would defiantly consider this setup for hunting, or general shooting purposes. These shafts seemed a little stiff, dont know why they should spine pretty good in my setup. Slightly better results with 125g tip than 100g so I posted them..
2314 (28 100g)
20yd- great grouping had to remove each arrow before I shot another.
30yd- groups <1 still tight good flight
40yd- groups 1.375 still good results. These shot great! A close second to the ACC shaft much less money.
I did test several other arrow configurations that didnt shoot quite as good. The 2314 is the only shaft that didnt shoot a perfect hole from the gate, but shot great at all ranges. I did shoot all arrows myself to confer results. I found the ACC, ICS400, and 2314 shafts gave me the best groups.
What I still dont get is the ACC shaft that should be way underspined for my setup shot the best in both the Hooter and in my hand. I have some more of those shafts cut to that spec to play with. According to every chart and my gut I think the 3-49 would be a better match. When I get a hold of some I will test them and post the results. As it looks now though I will shoot the 3-39s
On a side note. We entered bow information into Archers Advantage about my bow by taking direct measurements (which are slightly different than factory specs). After all the input the program spit out the ACC setup as optimum. INTERESTING!!!
What do you all think?
>>>----Andrew---->
10-26-2002, 06:23 AM
#12
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: .. NH USA
Posts: 970
RE: OK JeffB, PInwheel12 and other arrow guru's
Andrew-
Look at my above post.. You came to some of the same conclusions in your testing, and that is that some of the ACC shafts perform quite well for a variety of setups, as does the 2314. Obviously you have one of those configurations.
After you get your groups tuned to as tight as you can get them at distance, just for grins run each setup through paper at 6-9' and I'll bet you find a 11:00 tail-high left tear approx 1/4-1/2" or so if your spine is correct. I am confident some will tear this way if you are a right-handed shooter and use a release. Good shooting, Pinwheel 12
Look at my above post.. You came to some of the same conclusions in your testing, and that is that some of the ACC shafts perform quite well for a variety of setups, as does the 2314. Obviously you have one of those configurations.
After you get your groups tuned to as tight as you can get them at distance, just for grins run each setup through paper at 6-9' and I'll bet you find a 11:00 tail-high left tear approx 1/4-1/2" or so if your spine is correct. I am confident some will tear this way if you are a right-handed shooter and use a release. Good shooting, Pinwheel 12
10-26-2002, 06:30 PM
#14
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 3,058
RE: OK JeffB, PInwheel12 and other arrow guru's
Andrew,
Excellent posts.
Interestingly enough, the 3 shafts that I have found to have the most consistent spine yielded your best group both in a machine and with hand shooting.
Curious, did any of the hand shot shafts show a larger than normal increase in group size? (e.g..you got 1" groups at 40 with ACC's on the Hooter. Say your hand shot groups were 4 times as big (4"
. Did some shafts show a larger increase when handshot (say 5 or 6 times the hooter shooter shot group?)
I too am puzzled as to how these shafts which seem weak, are shooting so well out of your set-up. It could be a bazillion things really.. Is your Vortec a Verscam model? XT limbs? 2000 or 3000 limbs? Do you have the Versacam adjusted near the shortest draw length setting or the longest?
At any rate, I think that is very good example of why I prefer and promote ACC shafts for best accuracy.
Thanx so much for all your hard work!
JeffB <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Excellent posts.
Interestingly enough, the 3 shafts that I have found to have the most consistent spine yielded your best group both in a machine and with hand shooting.
Curious, did any of the hand shot shafts show a larger than normal increase in group size? (e.g..you got 1" groups at 40 with ACC's on the Hooter. Say your hand shot groups were 4 times as big (4"
. Did some shafts show a larger increase when handshot (say 5 or 6 times the hooter shooter shot group?)I too am puzzled as to how these shafts which seem weak, are shooting so well out of your set-up. It could be a bazillion things really.. Is your Vortec a Verscam model? XT limbs? 2000 or 3000 limbs? Do you have the Versacam adjusted near the shortest draw length setting or the longest?
At any rate, I think that is very good example of why I prefer and promote ACC shafts for best accuracy.
Thanx so much for all your hard work!
JeffB <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
10-28-2002, 11:51 AM
#15
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Klamath Falls, Or
Posts: 300
RE: OK JeffB, PInwheel12 and other arrow guru's
sorry I haven't replied sooner. Busy weekend.
Siskyou
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> I think you chose your shaft combos based on experience, correct?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
yes. I also use Archers Advantage to play with some numbers. If the information is entered correctly I find the results are very simmilar to real world tests. I work part time at Wilderness Packs. Susies is still in business. With the way they treat thier customers I don't konw how they stay open.
JeffB
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Say your hand shot groups were 4 times as big (4". Did some shafts show a larger increase when handshot (say 5 or 6 times the hooter shooter shot group?)
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
I got pretty much the same type of results in hand. The goups wern't quite so nice though. go figure
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I too am puzzled as to how these shafts which seem weak, are shooting so well out of your set-up. It could be a bazillion things really.. Is your Vortec a Verscam model? XT limbs? 2000 or 3000 limbs? Do you have the Versacam adjusted near the shortest draw length setting or the longest? <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
I have Saber cam cut to 29" draw length with XT2000 limbs. I believe the combination of the softer, smother saber cam, string loop and fall away rest help me pull it off.
thanks for the kind words. I agree with you on the value of the ACC shafts.
Pinwheel12
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> After you get your groups tuned to as tight as you can get them at distance, just for grins run each setup through paper at 6-9' and I'll bet you find a 11:00 tail-high left tear approx 1/4-1/2" or so if your spine is correct. I am confident some will tear this way if you are a right-handed shooter and use a release. Good shooting, Pinwheel 12
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
guess what I found? I tuned the bow with the ACC setup. I also shot setups with a simmilar spine. They all gave the tear you predicted. Thanks for the good information.
>>>----Andrew---->
Edited by - ACLakey on 10/29/2002 19:12:22
Siskyou
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> I think you chose your shaft combos based on experience, correct?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
yes. I also use Archers Advantage to play with some numbers. If the information is entered correctly I find the results are very simmilar to real world tests. I work part time at Wilderness Packs. Susies is still in business. With the way they treat thier customers I don't konw how they stay open.
JeffB
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Say your hand shot groups were 4 times as big (4"
. Did some shafts show a larger increase when handshot (say 5 or 6 times the hooter shooter shot group?)<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
I got pretty much the same type of results in hand. The goups wern't quite so nice though. go figure
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I too am puzzled as to how these shafts which seem weak, are shooting so well out of your set-up. It could be a bazillion things really.. Is your Vortec a Verscam model? XT limbs? 2000 or 3000 limbs? Do you have the Versacam adjusted near the shortest draw length setting or the longest? <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
I have Saber cam cut to 29" draw length with XT2000 limbs. I believe the combination of the softer, smother saber cam, string loop and fall away rest help me pull it off.
thanks for the kind words. I agree with you on the value of the ACC shafts.
Pinwheel12
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> After you get your groups tuned to as tight as you can get them at distance, just for grins run each setup through paper at 6-9' and I'll bet you find a 11:00 tail-high left tear approx 1/4-1/2" or so if your spine is correct. I am confident some will tear this way if you are a right-handed shooter and use a release. Good shooting, Pinwheel 12
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
guess what I found? I tuned the bow with the ACC setup. I also shot setups with a simmilar spine. They all gave the tear you predicted. Thanks for the good information.
>>>----Andrew---->
Edited by - ACLakey on 10/29/2002 19:12:22
10-30-2002, 04:23 AM
#16
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: .. NH USA
Posts: 970
RE: OK JeffB, PInwheel12 and other arrow guru's
ACLakey-
Glad to see you've been working so hard!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> Now that you've found the correct arrow and have it tuned, you can enjoy it! (remember tho that when the bow is perfect, there are no excuses left for poor shooting! All of the imperfections then directly relate to the guy behind the string!<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>) Have fun!<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Pinwheel 12
Glad to see you've been working so hard!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> Now that you've found the correct arrow and have it tuned, you can enjoy it! (remember tho that when the bow is perfect, there are no excuses left for poor shooting! All of the imperfections then directly relate to the guy behind the string!<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>) Have fun!<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Pinwheel 12
