New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
10-21-2002, 06:59 AM
#51
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lehigh County PA USA
Posts: 12,157
RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
I don't know P12...your argument makes rational sense but then again we are talking about people's emotions. Being one of those that usually buys a Hoyt in October/November each year I can tell you that I don't usually get as excited about the AMO show because Hoyt doesn't debut their new lineup there.
10-21-2002, 11:12 AM
#52
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 361
RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
I have on ? is Hoyt just plain scared to call it a two cam or am I missing something because it looks like a dualy to me. Please explain how this is different from a dual cam and how they will never get out of time.
10-21-2002, 11:58 AM
#53
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: .. NH USA
Posts: 970
RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
Frank-
Interesting reasoning! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> But, wouldn't you buy a new one anyway, if they released with other manufacturers' products at the AMO show? I mean after all, the AMO show is specifically designed for the manufacturers to show-off their wares to dealers, and is the known "starting point" for most products. I feel that they all should be able to "hold their horses" and release with the rest of the industry, makes them look more professional and not trying to "catch 'em with their pants down". Kind of ludicrous to be calling bows made in Sept/October 2002 a "2003" model! LOL. In my mind they definately are not. (Must've taken a page from the automotive industry!) So, anyone know what Hoyt plans to release for 2003?? <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> <img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle> <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
It's not just Hoyt either, there are a few manufacturers that pull this. (just to be fair!<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>) Pinwheel 12
Interesting reasoning! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> But, wouldn't you buy a new one anyway, if they released with other manufacturers' products at the AMO show? I mean after all, the AMO show is specifically designed for the manufacturers to show-off their wares to dealers, and is the known "starting point" for most products. I feel that they all should be able to "hold their horses" and release with the rest of the industry, makes them look more professional and not trying to "catch 'em with their pants down". Kind of ludicrous to be calling bows made in Sept/October 2002 a "2003" model! LOL. In my mind they definately are not. (Must've taken a page from the automotive industry!) So, anyone know what Hoyt plans to release for 2003?? <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> <img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle> <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
It's not just Hoyt either, there are a few manufacturers that pull this. (just to be fair!<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>) Pinwheel 12
10-21-2002, 12:02 PM
#54
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lehigh County PA USA
Posts: 12,157
RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
P12,
It is funny you should mention the automotive industry as I was going to use them as an example when I first started reading your post.
....but lets not also forget those magazine subscriptions where you might receive the October edition in August....<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
If I had my way then each manufacturer would release their lineup a different month of the year...then I could try a bow from each manufacturer each month without having to worry about missing out on something.
As I stated, I like Hoyt's early release date...but it throws a definite damper in my hunting plans when I end up switching bows before the season is over...<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
It is funny you should mention the automotive industry as I was going to use them as an example when I first started reading your post.
....but lets not also forget those magazine subscriptions where you might receive the October edition in August....<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
If I had my way then each manufacturer would release their lineup a different month of the year...then I could try a bow from each manufacturer each month without having to worry about missing out on something.
As I stated, I like Hoyt's early release date...but it throws a definite damper in my hunting plans when I end up switching bows before the season is over...<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
10-21-2002, 10:31 PM
#55
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Baltimore Maryland USA
Posts: 1,385
RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
bigcountry25: If you get a chance, find a way to examine a modern two cam, a typical popular single cam, the Darton C/P/S, and the new Hoyt. You will see that the two cam is different than all the rest because it has a split yoke cable system at the ends of both limbs. The typical popular single cam, the C/P/S and the new Hoyt cam all only have a split yoke cable system at the end of the top limb. If you follow the string from the cam on all but the two cam bow, you should find that the typical single cam, C/P/S, and the Hoyt (if it's like it appears in the pictures) all have basically the same travel sequence, except for a two piece string on the C/P/S and the Hoyt (if it is really like the C/P/S).
I haven't been able to truly examine the Hoyt yet; but, from the pictures, it is the same concept as the C/P/S. Many a Rep and customer has been astonished when they saw a true side-by-side comparison of the C/P/S and the typical popular one cam. It may be the same with the Hoyt; but, as stated, I haven't had the personal opportunity to verify it yet.
I hope this helps.
Edited by - Len in Maryland on 10/21/2002 23:35:17
I haven't been able to truly examine the Hoyt yet; but, from the pictures, it is the same concept as the C/P/S. Many a Rep and customer has been astonished when they saw a true side-by-side comparison of the C/P/S and the typical popular one cam. It may be the same with the Hoyt; but, as stated, I haven't had the personal opportunity to verify it yet.
I hope this helps.
Edited by - Len in Maryland on 10/21/2002 23:35:17
10-23-2002, 06:53 AM
#57
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 3,058
RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Ahhh Jeff, wrist hinge is a cause, but not the point itself. True pivot point is the connection of the string/cam. If you grab a bow, any bow, with any riser design, and torque it in any way, shape, or form, where does it "bend"? Always at the string/cam connection. Your wrist is a hinge, yes, but that is only one of the means with which you can "pivot the pivot point". Poor form, varying anchor positions, induced side torque, etc. can also throw the true pivot point off. Grab a bow, and draw it to full draw. Lock your wrist. Now move your anchor point. Where does the string bend? At the pivot point of the string/cam connection. Has nothing to do with your wrist, right? Unlock your wrist, and move it. Yes, you are inducing torque, but that is not the true pivot point. No, it is not the grip, you are correct there, but it is not the wrist either. I'll have to get on Frank about this one, as it is tricky.
I've got to side with Sag on his point, I prefer a heavier overall mass weight also as opposed to "super light" weight and then having to add countless amounts of vibration accessories to keep it tamed. I also feel the Tec risers are better off without the overdraw, and still maintain that Hoyt will have an great year with sales of the cam and 1/2. Martin should do well with their Onza too, but their best seller will be either the new Scepter 3 or Cougar I'll bet. Good shooting, Pinwheel 12
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
PW,
Sorry ..I totally missed your post here...
You are correct sir....I used the wrong terminology... (and GAWD..I'm a stickler for terminology)...yes..varying anchor..anchoring too tightly, etc....all correct...
I simply believe (as Mr. Pearson does) that if one has the arrow rest directly over the wrist (hinge), that the effects of an overdraw are no worse tha and arrow rest in fornt of the wrist. In fact I think it's more forgiving for some bows than having an arrow rest further up (closer to the hinge). My latest bow where I noticed this phenomenon was on my Bowtech Mighty Mite.
JeffB <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Ahhh Jeff, wrist hinge is a cause, but not the point itself. True pivot point is the connection of the string/cam. If you grab a bow, any bow, with any riser design, and torque it in any way, shape, or form, where does it "bend"? Always at the string/cam connection. Your wrist is a hinge, yes, but that is only one of the means with which you can "pivot the pivot point". Poor form, varying anchor positions, induced side torque, etc. can also throw the true pivot point off. Grab a bow, and draw it to full draw. Lock your wrist. Now move your anchor point. Where does the string bend? At the pivot point of the string/cam connection. Has nothing to do with your wrist, right? Unlock your wrist, and move it. Yes, you are inducing torque, but that is not the true pivot point. No, it is not the grip, you are correct there, but it is not the wrist either. I'll have to get on Frank about this one, as it is tricky.
I've got to side with Sag on his point, I prefer a heavier overall mass weight also as opposed to "super light" weight and then having to add countless amounts of vibration accessories to keep it tamed. I also feel the Tec risers are better off without the overdraw, and still maintain that Hoyt will have an great year with sales of the cam and 1/2. Martin should do well with their Onza too, but their best seller will be either the new Scepter 3 or Cougar I'll bet. Good shooting, Pinwheel 12
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
PW,
Sorry ..I totally missed your post here...
You are correct sir....I used the wrong terminology... (and GAWD..I'm a stickler for terminology)...yes..varying anchor..anchoring too tightly, etc....all correct...
I simply believe (as Mr. Pearson does) that if one has the arrow rest directly over the wrist (hinge), that the effects of an overdraw are no worse tha and arrow rest in fornt of the wrist. In fact I think it's more forgiving for some bows than having an arrow rest further up (closer to the hinge). My latest bow where I noticed this phenomenon was on my Bowtech Mighty Mite.
JeffB <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
10-23-2002, 01:23 PM
#58
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Memphis TN USA
Posts: 3,445
RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>But, wouldn't you buy a new one anyway, if they released with other manufacturers' products at the AMO show? I mean after all, the AMO show is specifically designed for the manufacturers to show-off their wares to dealers, and is the known "starting point" for most products. I feel that they all should be able to "hold their horses" and release with the rest of the industry, makes them look more professional and not trying to "catch 'em with their pants down" <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
I think a great many people will already be sold on their bow for next year long before the AMO show ever happens. I knew last Oct. that I was going with the Patriot and I did. I would say that the majority of the people feel the same. Plus it's kind of like I use to do in football. I would tell the guy on the other side of the line what play we were running because I knew there was nothing he could do about it. I guess Bowtech feels the same way. Here's what we got now what the $#@# are you going to do about it? Now those other companies can sweat it out until the AMO show when they find out if they do infact have what it takes. Besides any company that is setting around waiting to see what the other companies come out with, is already a couple of steps behind in the game. All in all I would say their rationale comes from a standpoint of any publicity is good publicity and this marketing strategy gives people more time to get the buzz going about their products. If you are the only dealer in your area and you have 50 guys come in asking you about Bowtechs before you head off to the AMO show, well it might be in your best interest to check out the Bowtechs everyone is talking about while you are there. After all ProShops are there to sell what customers like not what they themselves like. JMO
Protect your hunting rights, "Spay or neuter a liberal."
Edited by - silentassassin on 10/23/2002 15:02:20
I think a great many people will already be sold on their bow for next year long before the AMO show ever happens. I knew last Oct. that I was going with the Patriot and I did. I would say that the majority of the people feel the same. Plus it's kind of like I use to do in football. I would tell the guy on the other side of the line what play we were running because I knew there was nothing he could do about it. I guess Bowtech feels the same way. Here's what we got now what the $#@# are you going to do about it? Now those other companies can sweat it out until the AMO show when they find out if they do infact have what it takes. Besides any company that is setting around waiting to see what the other companies come out with, is already a couple of steps behind in the game. All in all I would say their rationale comes from a standpoint of any publicity is good publicity and this marketing strategy gives people more time to get the buzz going about their products. If you are the only dealer in your area and you have 50 guys come in asking you about Bowtechs before you head off to the AMO show, well it might be in your best interest to check out the Bowtechs everyone is talking about while you are there. After all ProShops are there to sell what customers like not what they themselves like. JMO
Protect your hunting rights, "Spay or neuter a liberal."
Edited by - silentassassin on 10/23/2002 15:02:20
10-23-2002, 01:55 PM
#59
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 361
RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
I have had a chance to look at the pic more is this just an ider wheel improvment for more level nock travel and a bit more speed or lighter draw force curve. I wonder if the specs would be similar if you took there "1/2" cam off and put on an idler wheel? But what do I know.
Thnaks len for pointing out that they have on cable on the bow. I missed it.
Thnaks len for pointing out that they have on cable on the bow. I missed it.
10-23-2002, 05:01 PM
#60
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lehigh County PA USA
Posts: 12,157
RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
It has always been pretty well know that Darton was one of the few companies (with their CPS system) to be able to achieve their advertised IBO speeds with a very smooth draw cycle. I think this is the reason you are seeing Hoyt head into this direction. Plus, the design remedies the level nock travel problems and tuning issues associated with traditional single cam design.
