RobVos

Well, I personnaly am a Merlin fan through and through, but I give credit to Hoyt on what they are doing. I would really like to get my hands on there new cam system and do some testing. You can read on the link now input/test from Dave Cousins (top ranked world archer)that he conducted at 60 meters (66 yards).

Sorry Sag, gotta agree with Frank IVO the Onza vs the Hoyts. Now that Couger III looks really sharp.

As far as shoot-through for hunting, I am with Pinwheel 12 on that -- the only negative is some guys will have trouble with bulky clothing getting close to the cables. I don't understand the fear of slicing the cables???? How do you currently load an arrow??? I can't imagine you thread the broadhead between the string and calbe now, so why would you do it with a split harness? I don't know about you, but I load the arrow by backing the nock end on to the string and never get the broadhead anywhere close to the cables. As a matter of fact, my single cam hunting bow has the cable split using a Merlin crescent. This takes a tremendous amount of inherent torque out of the system.

PABowhntr

I am too tired to comment on some of you &quot;nay-sayers&quot; right now.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> I will type something up tomorrow. <img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle>

Matt / PA

I know a viable method for testing riser strength between the Onza and comparable &quot;Tec&quot; bow..........hold the Hoyt in your left hand and Onza in your right. Now SLAM them together. Repeat if necessary. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Frankly I think the Onza just might win because Jeff's right......if it survived that drop through the &quot;Ugly Tree&quot; it's gotta be pretty tough.

And yeah.....Just WHO IS the guy in charge of naming Hoyts new junk? <img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle> I can just picture this guy by himself locked in a room with a bag of Cheeto's watching Gilligan's Island reruns and the CEO of Hoyt calls and wants his past due product names PRONTO........(said naming guy dropping his Cheeto's in a blind panic...THINK THINK!!) &quot;Uh yes sir I said Cam and a Half....that's right sir I think it's gonna be a winner!&quot;, and that new 34&quot; bow? (naming guy thinks back to his morning shaving problems)....&quot;Uhhhhh Razortec ,yeah Razortec is gonna be HOT, HOT I tell you!!&quot; <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

Sagittarius

Jeff,

Hell, all the &quot;I&quot; beam bows are ugly. That's a given, lol.

Frank,

The reason, I feel, the Onza has advantages is...
More mass in the riser and no thin sections like found in the Tec series. Don't you remember all the reports of Hoyt risers being bent in the bow press ?
It's still happening.
The current lineup doesn't look any more robust and superior than last year's bows.
Just a few degrees difference in the geometry of the risers to dupe you guys into buying a new one.
To me, the first Tec riser (Alphatec) was the best and has never been equaled.
It was hell for strong and sure wouldn't bend in a bowpress!
The new Onza reminds me quite a bit of the Alphatec.
As for the overdraw built in or not.
What difference does it really make in a extended bridged &quot;I&quot; beam riser if the shelf is extended all the way , (overdraw like the Alphatec) or shortened like the current Tec series ?
You can still shoot a longer arrow with a bridged overdraw if you wish.
The feel and balance will not, imo, be much superior from one to another but the one with the built in overdraw will be stronger and much more flex resistant.
Well, at least, the one's I've handled don't feel much different to me.
But I'm sure Hoyt would beg to differ.
As for the shoot thru being difficult to load an arrow while hunting for fear of cutting your harness with a broadhead.
I happen to hunt with a couple of PSE Mach bows and a Hoyt Superstar with cable guards.
Believe it or not, I have always loaded an arrow nock toward the string loop exactly as you would load an arrow for a shoot thru system.
Don't know why, always did it that way.
Hence, to me, how you load an arrow is a moot point.
On hindsight, I shouldn't have mentioned the Onza on a Hoyt thread. Apologies to Frank and other Hoyt fans!
Was just pointing out a few, to my mind, advantages the Onza had like the riser dampening, stiffness, and shoot thru harness for those who like &quot;I&quot; beam bows.
Of course, I already own the Ultimate &quot;I&quot; Beam Bow. LOL.
Accept no substitutes to the Ultimate &quot;I&quot; Beam. :^)
Sorry, Pinwheel. I had to borrow your current Merlin slogan.


Sag.

Sooner_Hunter

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Pinwheel 12,

I think the Bernadini system looks kind of strange -- looks like a double version of the cam used on the Dynabow. You have been calling for the &quot;hybrids&quot; to catch on for a while now and I think this will be the year for it. This type of system seems very similar to CPS, but with a little more refinement.

For specs on the bows, I think there is a downloadable XLS sheet that list them from the provided link. I downloaded it and it only took a second (not a long download for those who may fear that process), but I haven't looked at it yet.

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

You weren't kidding about the quick downloads. Oh and RobVos, you don't have to pay for Excel in these situations. Just slip over to this website and you can download an xls viewer for free:

http://office.microsoft.com/download.../xlviewer.aspx

&quot;Size may not matter but it sho IS nice!&quot; [/quote]

TFOX

Well Sag,I have owned the Alphatec,Protec,Ultratec and a few standard risers from Hoyt(along with a few other bows from other companies).The Striker II would be the best single bridge bow I have shot but by far the best bow I have ever shot is the Ultratec for flat out shootability and balance in my hand and the shock is exceptionally low.Less than the Alphatec,I doubt it but it definately isn't more.The Protec was most likely the most accurate but just didn't have the feel or speed that I wanted for 3-d.

The biggest draw back for the Alphatec is the weight along with the overdraw,I can't imagine extending a rest far enough to put the rest even with or right behind the burger button hole.I am a small person and the lighter Ultratec with the absolute best grip on the market is the way to go for me.The design of the bridge is what allows the grip to be so small.Maybe even to small if you have large hands.


Something else I find very important is the fact that they are made in the USA.Since I work in an industry that is greatly affected by unfair oversea competition.I find it of great importance to buy American when possible.I am not implying that all oversea competition is unfair(in fact it is necessary for a strong economy) but their is a lot of slave labor going on and we are having to compete against it.


As far as the new cam goes,I will have to admit it seems to be just what I have been looking for.A 2 cam that when the cable stretches,it doesn't change the impact point of the arrow.That is a remarkable claim and just from looking at the pictures,it looks like that is exactly what they have done.The cable adjustment looks to be very easy to do and shouldn't need any adjustment after the initial stretch.

I personally can't wait to shoot one.

I will also add that I love the names.

Sagittarius

Matt,

When slamming two bows together to see who the winner is...
My bets are on the Accu-Riser any day. LOL
Crude and destructive way to test the structure of a bow but whatever works. Right ?


Sag.

PABowhntr

Well, I guess it is necessary to recognize our differences of opinion when it comes to characteristics that are favorable in a bow. I prefer lighter weight for easier carrying while you tend to prefer the heavier mass weight for more stability. I am not really questioning anything just stating the obvious. Personally, I feel that the switch from the ol' built-in overdraw TEC risers to the new designs was the best thing that Hoyt has done when it comes to this design. There may be some truth to the new risers bending when put in a bow press but then again I have heard of just about any riser being bent when put in a bow press...even by some skilled individuals. If you are stating that they are more prone to bend when compared to a similarly equipped &quot;normal&quot; riser then I would probably disagree with you again...respectfully ofcourse.

Now, about the only other issue that I still would discuss is that of the built-in overdraw design. Having that overdraw on the bow will obviously put the pivot point of the arrow/rest behind the grip which will magnify shooting errors. As far as I can remember Hoyt did not have an optional &quot;second rest hole&quot; drilled into the front part of the I-Beam so that you could mount the rest in a &quot;normal position&quot;. I would think that the extended arrow shelf would get in the way of this exact installation. So, one could conclude that the new TEC risers promote better accuracy for the average shooter since the use of an overdraw is optional.

Finally, if you and Matt want to bang bows together then leave the Hoyts out of it. Why don't you two slam one of those Accurisers with a Pro 38 or Patriot or something? Who is gonna come out on top then?

<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

HuntingBry

Pinwheel and RobVos, I see your point. Having never handled the shoot through system I can only guess as to how I would load it. I was thinking that I would load it from tip through the cables and nock the arrow, but nock end through the cables would make more sense. It's definitely something I will be keeping my eye on and I'm sure as soon as Hoyt, Mathews, or BowTech picks it up their following will proclaim it as the greatest thing since Tec risers, solo cams, or blazing speed respectively.

Getting back to Hoyt's new line up, I really am anxious to check out the new cam system, but since I currently own a Hoyt Tec bow, I just don't know if I will get another. I like the weight and love the grip, but I am leary of putting it in my own press for any major work for fear of bending the riser. I hope they are able to get the new camo to dip better than the MO dips because IMO the cracking and lines in the old dip has no business being on a top of the line bow.

I do really like Martin's Cougar III and I think the Onza is kind of cool looking, but that's just me. I don't know that I will be going home to bang any of my bows together but if any of you try it please post your results.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

JeffB

I understand that one CAN get used to loading the arrow quickly like anything else, but it does involve more movement, places the cables in a position that makes them more likely to get bumped and/or hit stuff in the woods or otherwise(since they are effectively as wide as the limbs), and has the potential to cause more noise when loading an arrow for me, as I shoot feathers.

I understand the benfits, but in a hutning situation I don't see where the benefit outweighs the disadvantage. Spots? yes. 3D? yes. But not shooting whitetails at 30 yards from a poplar tree.

I do have to agree that the TEC risers are not as strong as they were in their infancy, however I think the loss of the overdraw is a welcome thing.

Now here's the clincher...I personally (along with Frank Pearson) feel that the true pivot point is not at the point where you grip the bow, but at your wrist...after all that is the hinge where torque is introduced...so I don't mind an overdraw that extends no farther than the wrist (in fact I think on certain bows an arrowrest over the pivot point, in this case the wrist,shoots better than it mounted farther forward) however the earlier Tec risers extended past the wrist, a no-no in my book.

My 2 coppers...