Definition of a PRO Shop
09-29-2002, 06:56 PM
#12
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Central PA
Posts: 2,299
RE: Definition of a PRO Shop
Len, glad to see you back! Hope everything's going well for you. Why don't you start a chain of archery pro shops, say...in the central PA area for starters? 
The shop I go to normally is a pretty good one. Though I still question one guys' worth there, the rest of the place is sound. They have a two different presses including a big commercial style one. They have a nice, well lit indoor 30 yarder and outdoor setup as well. There selection is pretty good. They seem to have a little of everything, in a lot of different price ranges.
One of the biggest things I have to say about them is the advice. If you are hell bent on something, they will sell it to you, but they will also give you some other suggestions and ask questions just to give you something to think about. If you buy a bow from them, you can shoot at their shop for free for quite a while. They sell quality products and most of the time, their prices arent too shabby either.
But again, Len, how about that chain of Pro Shops?
The shop I go to normally is a pretty good one. Though I still question one guys' worth there, the rest of the place is sound. They have a two different presses including a big commercial style one. They have a nice, well lit indoor 30 yarder and outdoor setup as well. There selection is pretty good. They seem to have a little of everything, in a lot of different price ranges.
One of the biggest things I have to say about them is the advice. If you are hell bent on something, they will sell it to you, but they will also give you some other suggestions and ask questions just to give you something to think about. If you buy a bow from them, you can shoot at their shop for free for quite a while. They sell quality products and most of the time, their prices arent too shabby either.
But again, Len, how about that chain of Pro Shops?
09-30-2002, 03:25 AM
#13
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: .. NH USA
Posts: 970
RE: Definition of a PRO Shop
Glad to see you're back onboard, Len! Hope everything is coming along well!
You nailed most of it IMHO, but especially the part about EXPERIENCE. IMO, you can have all of the money, stock, and equipment in the world, shine it and yourself up to look like a bright new penny, etc, but if you REALLY don't know how to use the tools, or set-up the equipment, it really means squat.
Nothing, and I mean nothing, beats experience in a shop, and a genuine love of the sport. If anyone is into this business for simply the money, might as well quit now, LOL! Yeah you can make a few bucks, but you spend LOTS of hours making it, if I didn't love the sport, I can definately think of many other business to be into that are much more lucrative.
And, you have to be able to communicate with the customers, realize they all do not have the same desires, love of the sport, or money to spend that others do, and set them up according to the depth of interest, and what they want out of it. I always try and take time to give my full attention to each individual customer unless they are content letting my son or other knowledgeable staff wait on them. That is why we do not answer the phone half of the time and let the machine pick it up. If we have customers waiting, THEY are going to ge waited on first. I've been on the other side of that counter, having to wait while the salesman answers the phone, then gets immersed in THAT call, and when he comes back around to you sometime later, his whole train of thought is broken. We do not do that. Our internet customers are a completely different bunch of customers, handled by our staff over there. I answer any "tough" questions myself when I can find time.
And I try to hunt or shoot in between! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> (vacation next week! YAY!)
Takes alot to be a reputable shop owner, but I love the sport and wouldn't have it any other way.
Good shooting, Pinwheel 12
Edited by - Pinwheel 12 on 09/30/2002 09:02:42
You nailed most of it IMHO, but especially the part about EXPERIENCE. IMO, you can have all of the money, stock, and equipment in the world, shine it and yourself up to look like a bright new penny, etc, but if you REALLY don't know how to use the tools, or set-up the equipment, it really means squat.
Nothing, and I mean nothing, beats experience in a shop, and a genuine love of the sport. If anyone is into this business for simply the money, might as well quit now, LOL! Yeah you can make a few bucks, but you spend LOTS of hours making it, if I didn't love the sport, I can definately think of many other business to be into that are much more lucrative.
And, you have to be able to communicate with the customers, realize they all do not have the same desires, love of the sport, or money to spend that others do, and set them up according to the depth of interest, and what they want out of it. I always try and take time to give my full attention to each individual customer unless they are content letting my son or other knowledgeable staff wait on them. That is why we do not answer the phone half of the time and let the machine pick it up. If we have customers waiting, THEY are going to ge waited on first. I've been on the other side of that counter, having to wait while the salesman answers the phone, then gets immersed in THAT call, and when he comes back around to you sometime later, his whole train of thought is broken. We do not do that. Our internet customers are a completely different bunch of customers, handled by our staff over there. I answer any "tough" questions myself when I can find time.
And I try to hunt or shoot in between! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> (vacation next week! YAY!)
Takes alot to be a reputable shop owner, but I love the sport and wouldn't have it any other way.
Good shooting, Pinwheel 12
Edited by - Pinwheel 12 on 09/30/2002 09:02:42
09-30-2002, 09:34 AM
#15
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: maryland USA
Posts: 131
RE: Definition of a PRO Shop
As a new owner of a pro shop which I am not a pro. I fall into a few of your catagories, 1. I have all the repair tools to fix bows 2. I can make any arrow to fit 2.I might not know everything but I will sent them to somebody who does. 3. I do it part time because I work a full time job, and I offer great prices and will set up for free because i love it so much I don`t mind. I am not in it for the money I just like seeing people start shooting and hitting the correct way, a lot of shops will not take the time to correctly set up because it takes too long but I have nothing but time. I make all my money on mark up of supplies which is not much, how many people want to drive 1 hr to set up their bow , I didn`t and everybody I set up thinks the same way.
Evan
Archery Accessories
301-872-0110
Evan
Archery Accessories
301-872-0110
09-30-2002, 07:57 PM
#16
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Baltimore Maryland USA
Posts: 1,385
RE: Definition of a PRO Shop
I appreciate all the input and will use the advice to advance the archery profession to the best of my ability. To answer some of your questions and explain some issues, I offer the following:
Big Country and walks with a gimp: No, I don't think many of my customers really know what they've got. We keep on growing so I'm assured that a lot of them do need our help.
hill runner: You've got mail.
bull1870 & wvhunter: Please stop by when you get some time. Keep in mind that the store is not impressive - it's a converted Body and Fender shop. We do, however, have a lot of stock and provide plenty of service.
The Mouse: We have 4 active presses and several in storage. One press is good enough but more is better for the reasons I stated. Talking you out of a 'gadget' is the sign of a PRO Shop. We do it more often than I'd like to admit. Not have enough time may not be a sin but a reality. Remember, if they're good, they'll have a very large customer base. There may be 20-30 bows waiting for their attention. Certifications are available but are not critical if the work they're doing meets your needs and expectations and they meet some of the guidelines I've stated. They'll expand if they can make a decent profit. If that happens, you can tell from these responses that you'll have an exception in your town. If you support them, they'll support you. Tell the owner about this thread and that he might want to consider introductory packages from some manufacturers. Once the shop is established and respected, many customers are willing to pay the extra $ for the professional set up.
muzzyman88 & JDoyle: Sounds like you two have good ones. As you can also see by the responses, consider yourself lucky and support such a shop and make sure you let your friends know that it is a true PRO Shop.
PW12: You're right about allocating your time. Enjoy your vacation. You've earned it. And how well I know that.
jevan: You're in a good location and they need more than what they've had down there in Southern MD. Welcome to the profession and please respect it as a profession. If you don't charge enough for your services, that tells the customers that your services aren't worth it or may make your competition look ridiculous. If you start doing an operation on the side, please don't do it so inexpensive that you make the local PRO Shop look like he's overcharging. Remember, anyone will want you to work on their bow for nothing. And, they'll line up at your door for that free service or marginal markup. Some will also stick you with special orders and other items if you give them half a chance. Just a word of caution. My cousin got caught up in the scenario I just explained. They were all his friends as long as he would meet their needs. Many will surely disagree with the last part of this response; however, I'm talking from experience and not promoting it as absolute.
Big Country and walks with a gimp: No, I don't think many of my customers really know what they've got. We keep on growing so I'm assured that a lot of them do need our help.
hill runner: You've got mail.
bull1870 & wvhunter: Please stop by when you get some time. Keep in mind that the store is not impressive - it's a converted Body and Fender shop. We do, however, have a lot of stock and provide plenty of service.
The Mouse: We have 4 active presses and several in storage. One press is good enough but more is better for the reasons I stated. Talking you out of a 'gadget' is the sign of a PRO Shop. We do it more often than I'd like to admit. Not have enough time may not be a sin but a reality. Remember, if they're good, they'll have a very large customer base. There may be 20-30 bows waiting for their attention. Certifications are available but are not critical if the work they're doing meets your needs and expectations and they meet some of the guidelines I've stated. They'll expand if they can make a decent profit. If that happens, you can tell from these responses that you'll have an exception in your town. If you support them, they'll support you. Tell the owner about this thread and that he might want to consider introductory packages from some manufacturers. Once the shop is established and respected, many customers are willing to pay the extra $ for the professional set up.
muzzyman88 & JDoyle: Sounds like you two have good ones. As you can also see by the responses, consider yourself lucky and support such a shop and make sure you let your friends know that it is a true PRO Shop.
PW12: You're right about allocating your time. Enjoy your vacation. You've earned it. And how well I know that.
jevan: You're in a good location and they need more than what they've had down there in Southern MD. Welcome to the profession and please respect it as a profession. If you don't charge enough for your services, that tells the customers that your services aren't worth it or may make your competition look ridiculous. If you start doing an operation on the side, please don't do it so inexpensive that you make the local PRO Shop look like he's overcharging. Remember, anyone will want you to work on their bow for nothing. And, they'll line up at your door for that free service or marginal markup. Some will also stick you with special orders and other items if you give them half a chance. Just a word of caution. My cousin got caught up in the scenario I just explained. They were all his friends as long as he would meet their needs. Many will surely disagree with the last part of this response; however, I'm talking from experience and not promoting it as absolute.
09-30-2002, 09:27 PM
#17
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: MUSCADINE AL USA
Posts: 5
RE: Definition of a PRO Shop
Len,
I will agree with some of your definitions but disagree with others.
1) I have a small shop and do not have room for more than one press. If mine were to brake I could have another one barrowed within the hour.
2) I don't quite understand why I should stock a boat load of strings that may or may not sell, when I can make them on the spot. I feel my money could be used more wisely on other inventory.
3) agree
4)agree
5)agree. I have lots of older bows come in the shop that I repair.
6)totally diagree. I know a man that has probally forgot more about how to work on a bow than most shop owners will ever know and he has no paper to prove it.( I was taught by him) I also know people with PHD's who can't poor water out of a boot with the instructions on the bottom.
7)I can paper tune but do not believe in it. I've seen bows that could shot the best paper tune you could ask for and couldn't group for crap at 30 yards. GROUP TUNING IS THE WAY TO GO. I don't think you need a machine to tell me if I have properly tuned a bow. I can shot it and know.
8)agree
9)I think this will depend on how large or small the shop is.
10)agree. I sell ,for example, rests from around $19.00 to $90.00 and lots of in between prices.
I dont fell that shops should have to quallify for any thing. What is great for your shop in Maryland may bankrupt me in Alabama. If my shop were in a large city sure I would have 10 or more items of the same thing but as it is now I can keep 3 or 4 of the same item and reorder as needed.
I fell that my shop can serve my customer base as well as you are doing yours but only on a smaller scale.
Keith's Arrows & Archery
[email protected]
KEITHSARCHERY
I will agree with some of your definitions but disagree with others.
1) I have a small shop and do not have room for more than one press. If mine were to brake I could have another one barrowed within the hour.
2) I don't quite understand why I should stock a boat load of strings that may or may not sell, when I can make them on the spot. I feel my money could be used more wisely on other inventory.
3) agree
4)agree
5)agree. I have lots of older bows come in the shop that I repair.
6)totally diagree. I know a man that has probally forgot more about how to work on a bow than most shop owners will ever know and he has no paper to prove it.( I was taught by him) I also know people with PHD's who can't poor water out of a boot with the instructions on the bottom.
7)I can paper tune but do not believe in it. I've seen bows that could shot the best paper tune you could ask for and couldn't group for crap at 30 yards. GROUP TUNING IS THE WAY TO GO. I don't think you need a machine to tell me if I have properly tuned a bow. I can shot it and know.
8)agree
9)I think this will depend on how large or small the shop is.
10)agree. I sell ,for example, rests from around $19.00 to $90.00 and lots of in between prices.
I dont fell that shops should have to quallify for any thing. What is great for your shop in Maryland may bankrupt me in Alabama. If my shop were in a large city sure I would have 10 or more items of the same thing but as it is now I can keep 3 or 4 of the same item and reorder as needed.
I fell that my shop can serve my customer base as well as you are doing yours but only on a smaller scale.
Keith's Arrows & Archery
[email protected]
KEITHSARCHERY
10-01-2002, 07:15 AM
#18
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Phoenixville, PA USA
Posts: 5,541
RE: Definition of a PRO Shop
I have never been to a shop like you described and I have lived in 4 metropolitan areas in 3 states and lived in one rural college town. I frequented one shop that had an excellent tech, but only one and a very limited selection of gear. I will be travelling through Maryland on business in November (right during the pre-rut <img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle> ) and I will be sure to plan on stopping at your shop.
10-02-2002, 09:49 AM
#19
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: maryland USA
Posts: 131
RE: Definition of a PRO Shop
Len I know what you mean, but I have a hard time charging friends to set up their bows after they spend 150$ on arrows and miss stuff. I think i am in line with the pro shops up the road and what the mail order sells their stuff for. I dont really mind not charging for a tune up because everyone I have helped have bought at least 20-80 dollars worth of items. I know I don`t know everything and I would love to know how to make strings up or even install new strings but that will come in time because I need a string on my G2. If I screw it up then I will know how not to do it and will take it to someone and let them show me. lord knows I have tinkered with my bows enought and they all shoot great. the only reason I wanted to open a shop is I love archery, I like to have my bow fixed right away and not weight 2 weeks, or drive 1+ hr up the road to get penny items installed, I love the look at somebody as they finally get their bow dialed in after another pro shop charged them 20 bucks and they still cant hit anything, all they wanted to do is sell them a new bow, Point in fact I helped a friends kid with his first bow he had it for 2 years and took it to 3 people who worked on it and couldn`t get it to draw more then 25lbs after I fixed it to pull 40 as stated on the limbs and taught him to shoot groups at 20 yards , he went out 2 days later and nailed a buck and I got a call from him today and he killed a 85lb doe last night and this kid is only 11 years old and just loves to shoot, that is why I got into it.....
Evan
Archery Accessories
301-872-0110
Evan
Archery Accessories
301-872-0110
10-02-2002, 10:19 AM
#20
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NW Ohio USA
Posts: 1,532
RE: Definition of a PRO Shop
Three weeks ago I spent the weekend for the Grand Opening Rep. Weekend in a huge outdoor store in Central OH. called Buckeye Outdoors in Buckeye Lake OH. They just built a new store that's 50,000 sq. ft.(old store was around 13,000 sq ft.) and man oh man what a store. I was like a kid in a candy store. I'd say they have over 300 or so bows in stock plus abut the same number of x-bows. They have 3 bow presses and probably every length string and cable ever needed to anyone (mostly z- twist). They probably have over 100 Trophy Taker rests in stock not including the 100's of NAP and GKF rests plus others... I seriously think they have dang near every accessory in stock that one could want... (I know thats not possible but they have it all)... They have 13 employees in the archery dept. alone and everyone of them seem very knowlegdable. This store has so much inventory from low end to high end and everything in between. Prices are the same as any other shops around not too high and not under cutting the next dealer down the road. Labor cost was the same too. This is a privately owned store and I definately consider it a PRO SHOP...If you're ever in Central OH. you should defintely stop in and check em out...
Edited by - BowTech_Shooter on 10/02/2002 11:24:52
Edited by - BowTech_Shooter on 10/02/2002 11:24:52