GSP waterfowl dog.
07-21-2009, 04:08 AM
#11
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New England
Posts: 811
Stradivarius was a breeder from Quebec I think, no? He is no longer breeding anymore, but produced some great dogs. Some bloodlines you might want to look into in the area are merrymeeting (Blaine Carter) and On Point (Dave Trahan). Both play in NAVHDA as well as with the DK club.
Personally, I think the AKC pedigree means very little to nothing. More and more, hunters looking for a good versatile hunting dog, be it a shorthair, wirehair, pudelpointer or whatever; are looking for either a NAVHDA pedigree, a JGHV/FCI pedigree or an American Field Pedigree. AKC is becoming more and more a show dog venue, imo.
Good luck with your goals.
Personally, I think the AKC pedigree means very little to nothing. More and more, hunters looking for a good versatile hunting dog, be it a shorthair, wirehair, pudelpointer or whatever; are looking for either a NAVHDA pedigree, a JGHV/FCI pedigree or an American Field Pedigree. AKC is becoming more and more a show dog venue, imo.
Good luck with your goals.
07-21-2009, 06:28 AM
#12
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Central PA
Posts: 829
HillHaven Kennels is in Wisconsin Stradivarius is the son of DC Hill Haven's Hustler.
I am not against Navhda, my issue is this... Navhda is 40 years old AKC is 125 years old. AKC titles are well documented and accepted in every record keeping organization that I am aware of, NAVHDA is not.
Are Navhda titles attached to the pedigree to show a documented history of bloodline accomplishments? I am under the impression it is not and it is solely an individual accomplishment not a pedigree accomplishment which to me doesn't incite the impression of confidence and validiy of an AKC 3 or more generation pedigree displaying that specific bloodlines accomplishments. I wish AKC would recognize Navhda titles and include their designation after the dog's registered name on the pedigree.
Let me re-emphasize I am not opposed to Navhda just wondering if it would be as beneficial to me and my goals. I do not like the clique type atmosphere I have seen at AKC events among judges judging each others dogs. I like the way Navhda tests are designed and how the judging is based off a standard as long as that standard remains rigid and precise without lowering it for a "friend" whose dog isn't deserving of the passing score. Most people who know about AKC know nothing about these qualifying tests and what takes place at them but nonetheless they will accept an AKC paper over a NAVHDA paper not that one is truly better than another it's is just that one is more recognized.
Thanks for the info on those other bloodlines, I will look them up. I will see what I have planned for that NAVHDA test in Pa during late Sept. I hope to make it out to see how things are run.
I am not against Navhda, my issue is this... Navhda is 40 years old AKC is 125 years old. AKC titles are well documented and accepted in every record keeping organization that I am aware of, NAVHDA is not.
Are Navhda titles attached to the pedigree to show a documented history of bloodline accomplishments? I am under the impression it is not and it is solely an individual accomplishment not a pedigree accomplishment which to me doesn't incite the impression of confidence and validiy of an AKC 3 or more generation pedigree displaying that specific bloodlines accomplishments. I wish AKC would recognize Navhda titles and include their designation after the dog's registered name on the pedigree.
Let me re-emphasize I am not opposed to Navhda just wondering if it would be as beneficial to me and my goals. I do not like the clique type atmosphere I have seen at AKC events among judges judging each others dogs. I like the way Navhda tests are designed and how the judging is based off a standard as long as that standard remains rigid and precise without lowering it for a "friend" whose dog isn't deserving of the passing score. Most people who know about AKC know nothing about these qualifying tests and what takes place at them but nonetheless they will accept an AKC paper over a NAVHDA paper not that one is truly better than another it's is just that one is more recognized.
Thanks for the info on those other bloodlines, I will look them up. I will see what I have planned for that NAVHDA test in Pa during late Sept. I hope to make it out to see how things are run.
07-22-2009, 07:31 AM
#13
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New England
Posts: 811
All NAVHDA test scores are listed on the NAVHDA pedigree.
However, like AKC, there are no enforced standards for breeding, but the community is much smaller which makes it much more difficult to cheat the system. AKC is so big and political that it has become more about helping the AKC and less about helping the dog breeds themselves. I have seen more than one case where DNA samples taken from pups did not match the parents on the pedigree and nothing is done to penalize this. I don't believe this kind of thing could happen at NAVHDA; not because the system couldn't be tricked; but because the community is small and dedicated enough that it wouldn't tolerate such behavior.
Also there is far more emphasis by NAVHDA breeders to only breed dogs that have successfully completed tests than in AKC. Personally, I am happy that AKC doesn't recognize NAVHDA test scores. AKC is an everything for everybody type organization. NAVHDA caters only to hunters.
There are great dogs in both systems, but I would argue the level of consistency is substantially higher in pups whelped by a NAVHDA breeder than an AKC breeder.
However, like AKC, there are no enforced standards for breeding, but the community is much smaller which makes it much more difficult to cheat the system. AKC is so big and political that it has become more about helping the AKC and less about helping the dog breeds themselves. I have seen more than one case where DNA samples taken from pups did not match the parents on the pedigree and nothing is done to penalize this. I don't believe this kind of thing could happen at NAVHDA; not because the system couldn't be tricked; but because the community is small and dedicated enough that it wouldn't tolerate such behavior.
Also there is far more emphasis by NAVHDA breeders to only breed dogs that have successfully completed tests than in AKC. Personally, I am happy that AKC doesn't recognize NAVHDA test scores. AKC is an everything for everybody type organization. NAVHDA caters only to hunters.
There are great dogs in both systems, but I would argue the level of consistency is substantially higher in pups whelped by a NAVHDA breeder than an AKC breeder.
07-23-2009, 03:46 AM
#14
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Central PA
Posts: 829
I agree with you on all your points. What you wrote is very true. I will have to come out to the next Navhda event in Pa. Now that I know about the NAVHDA Pedigree I am more interested and will almost certainly run my dog in Navhda and see how I like it. Thanks Again!
07-23-2009, 06:19 PM
#15
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 7,441
Want to find out more about NAVHDA pedigrees call the central office and ask for Jim.
I see many in NAVHDA over the years run dogs in both venues.
And because of this I have witnessed the versatile breeds just getting better.
I don't care what venue to you do as each you are working the dog the result is you end up with a much better tool out in the field. Watching a well trained dog is a beauty to witness pure and simple.
JW
I see many in NAVHDA over the years run dogs in both venues.
And because of this I have witnessed the versatile breeds just getting better.
I don't care what venue to you do as each you are working the dog the result is you end up with a much better tool out in the field. Watching a well trained dog is a beauty to witness pure and simple.
JW
07-25-2009, 02:54 AM
#16
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Central PA
Posts: 829
Nothing like watching a dog in a dead sprint catch wind of a bird and lock up instantly bending him/herself in a v to point the bird. I like all hunting breeds but a pointer that points well is second to none in my opinion.
08-15-2009, 05:09 AM
#17
Spike
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 20
My dog is half English Pointer and half GSP. Could I still participate in NAVHDA?
08-15-2009, 10:10 AM
#18
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 7,441
Yes you could participate at the Chapter level but unfortunatley could not enter a test because the cross breed is not recognized.
However,
Testing is just an evaluation of where your training is anyhow.
I is at the chapter level where other chapter members help train you to train your own versatile pointing dog on both land and water before the shot.
A well trained dog is a valuable tool out of both land and water! That part you could particiapte in.
JW
However,
Testing is just an evaluation of where your training is anyhow.
I is at the chapter level where other chapter members help train you to train your own versatile pointing dog on both land and water before the shot.
A well trained dog is a valuable tool out of both land and water! That part you could particiapte in.
JW
08-15-2009, 05:10 PM
#19
Spike
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 20
Yes you could participate at the Chapter level but unfortunatley could not enter a test because the cross breed is not recognized.
However,
Testing is just an evaluation of where your training is anyhow.
I is at the chapter level where other chapter members help train you to train your own versatile pointing dog on both land and water before the shot.
A well trained dog is a valuable tool out of both land and water! That part you could particiapte in.
JW
However,
Testing is just an evaluation of where your training is anyhow.
I is at the chapter level where other chapter members help train you to train your own versatile pointing dog on both land and water before the shot.
A well trained dog is a valuable tool out of both land and water! That part you could particiapte in.
JW
Last edited by Junglecarbin; 08-15-2009 at 05:46 PM.