Phil from Maine

I was wondering what your opion is with American or AKC
field trails are ? I have been checking into things and as
most know I hunt the Irish Setters and after some talking
folks here I'm still not sure. So what is your take on this ?

Mite

Concerning AKC trials. This is quoted from another forum. The person saying this is a competitor and judge for AKC field trials and this comment was observed when she went to Ames National,

"From what I've seen last week, American Field trials are pretty much the same as AKC, at least as far as 'rules' go. The interpretation of the rules might differ a bit; there is also room for some variation in style. For example, a dog with a level style moving and standing could win over a high style dog IF it had superior ground race and bird work and maintained intensity. In AKC events, any breed would have a chance at winning - there is breed-blindness in some judges, but for the most part I've found that the best bird dog usually wins. There isn't that pervasive breed prejudice throughout as with the AF pointer/setter prejudice.

Not having run local AF events, I can't speak about the quality of the dogs; in my experience in local AKC trials, there are some dogs that are not high classbird dogs. However, for most people trialing is a hobby and a way to have fun and relax. As a competitor it's none of my business what others run, and as a judge I don't have to use dogs I don't like."

Concerning pointer/setter prejudice, she was talking about how peopleare looking more atenglish pointers vs. english setters.

Now, in the same conversation, this person is respondingto some ofwhat the first person said. Youmay have read it before but I will post it again,

"But to get placed the dog must perform and the lack of placement for failure to perform cannot be attributed to anything but the lack of performance. To bring out the best in the dog he needs experience and that is obtained by exposure to wild birds regularly, three times a week, week after week, month after month., not on occasional weekend hunting trips. In AF trials there will be many dogs which have that kind of experience. Many will get it from a professional who works the dogs regularly because that is his full time job. He has the grounds, the knowledge and the work ethic to get the job done."

As you probably noted, AF trials are taken quite seriously. Alot of money is made in AF trials as that particular venue has been in existance since the 1880's.

Most people involved in the AKCare usuallyparticipating inhunt tests. This is where Junior, Master, etc. titles come from. You will have to ask Doc E or Jonsey as I am not involved with this venue.

But between the AF and AKC, neither wins is recognized by the other. You may dual register but each title must be obtain by that particular registery, for example, a dog winning some prestigeous title in AKC means nothing in AF trials and would not qualify for a regional or national championship. Same with AF. As an opinion, if your dog is initially registered with FDSB, then you'll want to run AF trials.This is only because to register it with AKC, you'll only have to show five generations back thus negating any previous champions in the line. Same with AF.

Sean english

Hi Phil
Good to see you is still around. How them Setters comming along? what are you doing as far as training in off season?

Phil from Maine

Thanks Mite I had been talking to aformer judge of AF who runs the gordon setters and he told me about the prejudice things that he encoutered. Only he described it as more of a color thing in which the
prefference was white. He told me a little bit about the AKC trails and
that Maine has one in the fall. That is about 200 miles from here. So now
I'm trying to decide about this and that is why I would be asking. He told
me he had seen a pup that I had sold a year ago and thought it was a
great looking dog and quickly could see the difference from the show in it.
He told me I might want to concider the AKC as the style means alot but the tail not being at 12:00 as long as the hunt and style is good shouldn't be much of a problem.

Hi Sean I've been taking them out running when I can and talking walks down some grown up roads looking for woodcock and they have found a quite a few migratorys and it has been good for them. Rusty has been pointing them pretty darn good. Roxie is on again off again but she seems to be coming along. At least it gives me hope,as, she has the best nose by far. I'm currently building a couple of pens for quail and pheasant that
I'm planning on getting for them this summer. This should help with Roxie alot I'm hoping. For the time being I have Roxie seperated from Rusty and she has her training on hold as that time for her has come around again
and I'm not planning on any puppies right now.So she will be back to training again in a couple of weeks. I'm also trying to connect whistle training on them now. Rusty has been picking this up pretty good. Roxie hasn't had this just yet but will be shortly.

daleh

American Field Trials are the Big league Or Winston Cup of the field trials
There is alot of Prejudice about the dogs. Pointers win most of time. However, the best dog wins most of the time weather it is a setter or whatever.
This is sport that does not have a start line or finish line and is based on the opinion of two men.
there is no pass and no fail just the best dog wins and if your dog screws up then you pick-em up

Mite

I would probably have to disagree with daleh concerning AF being the big league of trails. In strict interpretation, yes, compared to other venues like NSTRA. But when hunt tests and the likeare included then everything is out the window. Alot more hunters are using versatiles and labs for hunting and so these tests are becoming increasing popular.

Don't get me wrong. I will always own a FDSB dog and would not consider AKC registration (You'd have to prove to me the dog hunts whereas I'd buy a dog under FDSB unseen). The first dog I entered into a field trial (and only one) was a AF trial in the early 80s (Dog was out of I'm Oscar x local champion). And this dog I currently own I looked to FDSB first. They were the first and they still stick true to their original purpose, sponsoring field trials.

Phil from Maine

I want to thank you folks as I'm like most that want the best out of
our hunting dog. I know this is a hard subject, andI havesome hard to find hunting dogs. I also know from the bird farms we have hunted he left
them with some strong impressions.They have seen a quite a few champion dogs pass through and think I have something worth trialing.
I'm thinking of getting Rusty in one "just to see" what happens and go from there. Rusty's tail is only around 11:00 but, have seen it come up a few " rare occasions " to 12:00 in the kennel, not on the hunt. SoI am
currently debating on a few lessons from a pro to try and help this out.
At any rate I'm currently planning on trialing him, and thank you for the
help on this question.