PA GOBBLER

okay first i want to say my 7 month old EP is doing great. ive had him out on birds now a few times and he is getting better and better everytime. he works great in fields and in the woods.now here is my question, i think his nose is great but i think he is still learning how to use it. like i can tell once he hits the scent cone, and that is where i want him to stop(whoa). but he seems to work that scent cone a bit, then finds it and points the bird but is really close to it.. well w/ penned raised birds that works but when you start hunting wild grouse that's not going to cut it. now since he is young should i let him do this for a few more hunts for him to get more confidence in his nose. or should i start w/ the check cord and once he smells it whoa him? thenhave a helper walk up and flush it. but my problem is i dont think once he first smells bird that he knows the spot its at yet. this might not make senseLOL now that im reading it. but if you know where im coming from please give me your advice thanks[/align]

tailcrackin

Go ahead and finish the season, he will learn of the wild birds, if he don't point, don't kill. No need in giving reward if not deserved!! Don't worry about all that whoa crap, let the dog keep his focus on the bird, and what is going to happen next, it will be easier on you and the dog, the dog will read off of your voice and your body language, gaurantee!! by this next season, he will know what all the extra bells and whistles are. You will have a totally different perspective on your dog. I haven't led you astray yet have I?? He is doing what he wants cause he can, and thats fine, you should be seeing a bolder stronger feeling dog right, more confident looking when running. Matter of fact he doesn't point don't shoot, period, overlook the greed of your hunt, we are gonna try and graduate to bird respect. he don't get any of the old excitement if he doesn't start his job a little better, you will see, a difference in a few birds, don't say nothing and if he don't point, don't do nothing. You understand. we are gonna change the routine a little, before he was a pup, now he is a teenager. You follow? Just relax, everything will be fine, I understand the training will not be as fun, but you are actually training and neither of you will relize it, it will come out in the wash later, promise, Later Jonesy

PA GOBBLER

okay i see what your saying jonesy.and its funny how each time he gets on birds how he has gotten bolder and confindent. and he is running really good. oh yeah i havent been shooting if he dont point. u told me that before and i listened.. lol.. and it didnt take but about 2 flushes and he started pointing. fact now he has kinda put it together. 2 weeks ago we got one chukar and 2 pheasants.. woohoo it was a good day.. well i missed 2 other chukars, and it was funny he watched where that bird flew then he looked at me like "you missed" and took off after it.
okay but i still am not sure if i should let him get so close to the bird when he points. is that normal im saying less than 5yrds? thanks bud

tailcrackin

Don't put the birds down so hard if , you are planting, take and dizzy, then just toss to the cover, don't mess with putting to sleep, or if you just been dizzying, don't dizzy so hard, spin for a sec ot two, and as soon as th ehead gets a little goofy, toss, now if a number of birds, put the one the dog will get to last put it down pretty good. Also wear a hat, and if the bird gets up and walks around, with the dog wanting to stay on point, take your hat and hit the bird with a fling, 99% of the time they will get gone. Pen raised are awful at times. Thanks, make sense?? Jonesy

Doc E

Tailcrakin,

For "early on" training, what do you think of 'carded' birds?



.

tailcrackin

Carded birds are great, but I think he stuff he's working was to thick, lots of trees, thats an excellent option, use them personally bunches!! Thanks Doc, Jonesy

rcgerchow

I have had GSHP and Weims and each dog has had their own style depending on their personality. A GSHP female I had (1989 S.E Mich, Pheasant Champ) pointed very close to the bird, in fact at times she had caught pen raised birds that refused to fly. I would very rarely whoa while working a bird and just use easy in a soft but stern enough tone to let her know we were working together. She would usually work in and lock, if the bird was not there I would let her relocate (ok) the bird,of course we are talking wild birds here. With my Weim she is a very smart and sensitive dog and needs the same type of reinforcement. I also had a son fo my champ GSHP that you had to use sharp whos commands, if you used a soft easy or ok with him you would find yourself standing alone while he hunted the bird. Know your dogs personality and how you want that dog to hunt for and with you, not all dogs are going to hunt like field champs and TV dogs and if you try to make them like that you end up with problems (like the dog that lays down on points in another post).

daleh

All Dogs have to start somewhere. Some people believe they should point, back, and retrieve right out of the box and sometimes it happens. Most pointing breed dogs need to have some form of training. I strongly believe that bird dogs need birds. i let all my bird dogs knock and chase (the reason for this is they will do it while they are young or old and i would rather they do it when they are young) some things mom and dad have to put in the dog other things are pure experience.
let the puppy be a puppy first take em out in the field and let em go with you. make sure that they find birds when you are around them. let them point, knock, chase oreven catch and eat the bird. Bird Drive is something you are responsible for putting in your dog. they will start pointing and staying longer and longer when you are able to flush shoot a birdso they get rewarded for holding a point. then it is time to do something different.
Maybe a recall pen would work great for this

Blueditch42

I agree with daleh about the birds, birds and more birds. But i would not let your pup eat any bird it puts in its mouth. Just something you will have to break him or her of later. If you can keep bad habits from forming then why not right??? Just my two cents.

Flairball

I'm adding to this thread a little late, but it has caught my attention. I would say to not worry about your dog pointing the released birds tight. As long as he points them you are on your way. Remember that this is just training, and is a very controlled situation. Released birds act differently that wild birds, but your dog will figure that out on it's own. Once you put him out there on wild birds there will be some set backs in the form of bumped birds because he is crowding them, but he will figure out the distance with time. Experience will teach your dog how to work running ruffs, just as it will teach him it's okay to crowd woodcock.

If you want to challenge him a bit in training try not spinning or dizzying the released birds at all. They will definately act a bit more jumpy. Game birds would rather run than fly, so slip them into bits of cover they can sneak around in when released. Quail are small, so it doesn't take much cover. This will also get your dog started on tracking a bit of ground scent too, as the bird will most likely have moved a short distance from where you placed it.