statjunk

I think I'd like to start with a 400 gr bullet in jacketed. Would RL-7 still be a good choice for the jacketed?

Does the .45-70 typically call for a mag primer or regular primer?

Tom,

I'm not 100% sure what you're referring to when you talk about taper vs roll over crimp. I was planning on purchasing the LEE Die Set which includes a roll over crimp. Here is a link to it.

http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=7613&dir=210|212|232|34 9

Would the Lee dies not do an effective job? Could you explain the draw back of the roll over crimp in more simple terms?

Could you explain what belling is in layman's terms? Also how it will cause a retention problem. Might as well through retention in there as well.

I'm pretty new to this stuff. Maybe 100 reloads under by belt mostly just going through the motions.

Thanks

Tom

bigcountry

Tom, I would start with IMR3031. Its a classically 45-70 powder good for bullets from 300gr to 500gr. But thats me. And if its a deer hunting gun, I would start with 300gr sierra or 350 Hornady. Its a reg primer.

Lyman makes a nice die Head is talking about. I would suggest this myself. The M die does a great job at nice straight seating. See pict below

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=507130&t=11082005

HEAD0001

RL-7 works good for the gambit of 45-70 bullets. Speer makes a pretty good jacketed bullet for a decent price. Large Rifle primers-not magnum.

The problem with a roll crimp is that the length of your brass has to be exact. If one piece of brass is .005 longer than the other then the roll crimped case will dig .005 deeper into the bullet. therefore pressure is not as consistent with the roll crimp. The taper crimp will not dig into the bullet as deep. This allows more consistent pressure, even if your brass is not exactly the same length. However the more consistent your brass is, the better your ammo will shoot.

Some people like the LEE dies. Personally I do not have much use for LEE products.

Belling means opening up the case mouth to allow easier seating of the bullet. The Lyman M-Die seems to do a more consistent job. That is just my opinion. If you bell your case too much then it is more difficult for the neck to hold your bullet properly(retention). If you use jacketed bullets- keep your belling to a minimum, but be consistent.

I prefer to use a separate crimp die. This adds an additional step. But IMO crimping is very important to accuracy. Tom.

statjunk

BC & Tom,

Thanks for the info. I'm going to go ahead and order up the Lyman die set even though it costs twice as much as the LEE set. I'm currently setting up the Marlin for hunting bears since I will be heading up to Canada in Aug/Sept for a hunt. I'm going to go ahead and get some 400 gr bullets. I've had good expereince with the Partitions so I'm going to price check those.

Tom,

Would the speer jacketed be good for bear and if so is there a model name I should look into?

Thanks for all the help guys. I appreciate it.

Tom

eldeguello

Although there once was a high-velocity commercial load using the 300-grain bullet back around 1900, and there is a new such load now, the .45/70's usually have a rifling twist better suited to heavier bullets. Here I mean ones of at least 350-grains, and better yet, 400 grains or more -up to perhaps 500 grains.

None of the .45/70's I've owned would shoot ANY 300-grain bullet worth two hoots. BUT, I have had good results with the Lyman-Gould 457122HP, a plain-base, hollowpoint cast bullet that comes from my mould, made of wheel weights,at 342 grains. For heavy loads, I heat-treat them to 18Brinnel hardness, and put an inverted gascheck on top of the powder charge before seating the bullet. I use 55 grains of IMR 3031 with this bullet for a MV around 1900 FPS.

In addition, I like the BarnesOriginal400-grain semi-spitzer which has a nice big hunk of exposed lead, and it has a real high ballistic coefficient-.389. Unfortunately, it is sort of pointed, so it would be a two-shot proposition in the Marlin-one inthe tubular magazine, one in the chamber. But this Barnes bullet definitely takes the .45/70 OUT of the short-range only class!

Those350-grain Speer and 400 grain Speer flatnosed bulletsare both good, but the 400-grainermay be a little too soft for BIG bears (OK on blackies, however). Loaded up, the Speer 350-grain is real potent medicine for big, mean/tough critters. (I wish Nosler made a 350 or 400-grain Partition for the .45/70.)

Use around 52-54 grains of IMR 3031 with400-405 grain jacketed bullets. Use 55-58 grains of the same stuff with the 350's.

In ALL cases, work UP from at least 5% below!

Pavomesa

The 45/70 is one of the best cast bullet cartridges ever built. The old Lyman 400 gr round nose is about the perfect bullet for it. I wouldn't even consider jacketed bullets, frankly. Big waste of money. Some may think it takes some huge jacketed bullet to penetrate a bear but that simply isn't true. I watched the Lyman 400 gr cast bullet go through both sides of a 6" steel pipe one day when I was doubting it would penetrate one side. I think that will handle any black bear that ever breathed and probably most grizzly.

As for accuracy, again you'll likely get best results with cast bullet. Start with a few 400 gr cast bullets sized .458. If that doesn't group to suit you get a few more sized .459. Shooting slightly oversized cast bullets almost always solves any accuracy issue. Start here and you'll forget any other option and live happily ever after.

PS - You can build up some terriffic loads around this bullet using 2400 powder as well. Start about 18 grs. and work up to where you and the rifle like it. This simple load is probably hotter and more powerful than anything our forefathers tamed the West with. Americans are brainwashed into thinking if their rifle and load won't stop a tank, it won't stop anything.

statjunk

Any recommendations regarding the brass, Remington, Winchester or Starline? All about the same price.

I'm kind of floored with the price of the bullets. Ok really floored. Cheapest stuff I've seen is a buck a bullet. It looks like an assembled bullet will run about $1.30-$1.50. Wow.

I'm going to check my rifle to see if it is a ballard or microgroove.

Tom

statjunk

Oh yeah and thanks to everyone for the guidance so far. You've been excellent resources. Feels good to have you guys on my side.

Tom

statjunk

Where would I find the Lyman bullets at? Or is that a form of casting that you do on your own?

Thanks

Tom

Pavomesa

Tom, this guy makes really, really good bullets and has always been very reliable and fast. Unfortunately success has allowed him to get more expensive as well, but it's still nothing like jacketed bullets.

http://www.proshootpro.com/

There are other sources on the net if you look a little. If you find one and aren't sure about them...ASK. Some places are slow as molasses and some are little more than scams.

I would suggest you start with the PR45-300G bullet. This is a 300 grain bullet but I think you'll fall in love with it and be amazed what it can do in your rifle. It's only $47/250 bullets. And it is a gas checked bullet, which I would highly recommend. He has a good 400 gr. gas checked bullet available but the price goes up fast. No since paying that just to get to know your rifle. Frankly, I doubt you will ever want anything larger than 300 gr.

PS - I've talked to him on the phone a few times in the past and he's not an unreasonable fellow. You might talk him into selling you something of a "starter pack" consisting of a dozen or so of two or more bullet styles to help you find which one works best in your gun. Frankly, I think I would order them in size .459 rather than .458. This is no big deal in cast bullets but often aids accuracy considerably.