Bullet Swaging vs. Store bought Bullets
06-05-2007, 06:18 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 7
Bullet Swaging vs. Store bought Bullets
OK folks!
Here's some information you MAY wish to give consideration to, as it represents a significant alternative to LARGE sums of money and various levels of personal frustration I read in most of these forum posts dealing with limited forms of bullets available for the .172 & 17HMR's, .223, .308 etc.
[blockquote]NOTE: What is presented here, IS NOT AN ADVERTISEMENT, NOR ENDORSEMENT, it does however represent a REAL ALTERNATIVE to store bought ammunition and which can and will save you, literally, thousands of dollars, through building your own CUSTOM BULLETS and doing your own reloading. I've included the URL and I promise you one thing from this, which is:
Knowledge is costly;
[ol][*]It's costly to obtain (books, experience, CD's, DVD's, VHS Video tapes, School course works, apprentiship training, etc.)[*]It's costly NOT to learn because you remain captive to all other sources which are vested with the knowledgebase you do not have... (Store bought ammunition in this instance, Federal regulations which restrict and limit your access to purchasing or other ownership BATF, etc.)[/ol]Therefore, I present you with an alternative thought process, which will allow you to custom build almost any type of bullet design you can mentally invent and in some instances, simply copy that which currently exists and to which modifications of personal choice may be applied or adapted.
[/blockquote]Some years back, I purchased used, several sets of "SWAGING" bullet dies and ever since that time in 1998, I've not once, had to purchase a single round of ammunition from any retailer.
It wasn't that I was cheap, simply that the type and forms of shooting I do, is costly, and usually, I use up a moderate sum of ammunition 1-200 rounds per session.
Using a center-fire Remington model seven (.17REM) (which is a necked down .223 case) this gets expensive rather fast. More specifically, the bullet is made by using a resizing die through which a .22cal LR is pressed to become .172 cal. While I'm focusing on the .172 cal, most of this information has applicaiton to most other cal's up and including 50 BMG.
Anyway,the point I'm attempting to make is that through swaging your own bullet, you can obtain a custom bullet(s) which you simply can not purchase.
The next difficulty is with the availability or choice of bullet used in store bought rounds, normaly FMJ's or JHP's.
I prefer, a bullet, between 18 and 28gm, with a PolyTip (round balls of most any form of plastic or similar materials), HotFire-Phosphorous base insert (makes following the trail of the bullet to target really neat and illuminating), Rebated-Boat-tail, with a core of (Lead, Copper, Brass, Steel, Nickle, etc.) and to top all this off, in some instances, a small fluid filling of "Mercury, Water, Hydro-carbon fluid such as Oil, Grease, or some other NON-COMPRESSABLE LIQUID".
Take all of the previously stated information and you then SWAGE (high pressure compression) the elements into one single specialty or highly custom, bullet of your own creation. Instead of paying $0.25 per bullet at Horn...., my cost is nothing more than my time, equipment, and various component parts, so a cost of maybe, $0.05 cents, and that's pushing it!
Here I will stop and the following is a basic quotation from Mr. Corbin's website. I sincerely hope this information will empower at least some of you with a learning process, and knowledge base concept, you may not have thought about previous to reading this posting.
Here's wishing you a higher level of personal freedom than you may have had yesterday!
---Bob Catt - Tucson, AZ (17-May-2007)---
REFERENCE WEBSITE: http://www.corbins.com/starting.htm
Sub-caliber bullets are those smaller than the standard .224 diameter, which includes these standard Corbin sizes: [ul][*].204 (5mm or 20 caliber)[*].172 (17 caliber)[*].145 (14 caliber)[*].123 (12 caliber) [/ul] The main difference between sub-calibers and larger calibers is the jacket. Corbin has .172 jackets available, but typically jackets for sub-calibers are drawn from .224 jackets, and trimmed to desired length using a jacket trim die.
Lead wire is available down to .172 caliber size, which is .125 diameter to fit the .17 jacket. For .14 and .12 caliber, you will need a LED-2-S lead wire extruder to make .100 and .090 lead wire. While sub-cals can be formed from annealed copper wire, the lower BC of such projectiles tends to make them inferior to drawn jacketed bullets filled with lead.
To make .145 caliber bullets, one could use .030 copper strip and the Corbin JMK-1-S jacket making kit, or simply draw down a .172 or a .224 jacket. The .123 caliber bullet would be another draw for the .145 caliber jacket.
Long heavy .172 caliber bullet jackets can be made from either .224 or 6mm jackets (using two draws).
The most typical ogive shape for sub-cal bullets is 6-S, but experimental .172's have been made with 10-S ogives.
The first step in swaging any bullet is adjusting the weight of the core. The core can be lead, or some other material. It can also be the entire bullet (for lead bullets), or just the filling for the jacket (which is the cup or shell around the core). This is an optional but highly recommended first step. You can skip it and make sure your cut or cast cores are as accurate in weight as possible by careful preparation. In that case you do not need the core swage (CSW) die.
The bullet can be made in one step if it has no jacket, and can have a shoulder between the shank and nose. It can be made in two steps, in a core swage and a core seat die, if it has a jacket that does not go past the shoulder. If it has a flat, cup, dish, or hollow base, it can be made in three dies, without a shoulder, with or without a jacket. The jacket can be put in backward to make a full metal jacket, or the lead core can be shorter than the jacket for an open tip. Rebated boattail bases and lead tips are created with other steps. No more than five basic operations are required for swaging any of the bullet styles.
Each step is a single stroke of the press. Each stroke takes from 2 to 5 seconds, depending on the press and the particular operation. Simple lead bullets can be made at 10-12 per minute, jacketed semi-wadcutters at 5-6 per minute, full jackets, soft or hollow point flat bases at 3-4 per minute, and rebated boattail open tips at 2-3 per minute.
The important thing to keep in mind about swaging is that the process works by putting very high pressure on the filling or core, which compresses in length and expands in diameter, pushing the jacket (if used) into exact conformity with the inside of the die. The component you are swaging expands in diameter. When you release the pressure to eject the bullet, the materials shrink back very slightly to release from the die. The jacket stretches, and every void within the sealed die is filled with material. Whatever pressure is applied to the core, or base of the bullet, is also applied to every other part.
============end===========
Lot's more follows at http://www.corbins.com/starting.htm
and here the fun just begins.
--ALL THE VERY BEST TO EACH OF YOU--
The next and following message will give you some additional info from his webpages to contemplate.
Here's some information you MAY wish to give consideration to, as it represents a significant alternative to LARGE sums of money and various levels of personal frustration I read in most of these forum posts dealing with limited forms of bullets available for the .172 & 17HMR's, .223, .308 etc.
[blockquote]NOTE: What is presented here, IS NOT AN ADVERTISEMENT, NOR ENDORSEMENT, it does however represent a REAL ALTERNATIVE to store bought ammunition and which can and will save you, literally, thousands of dollars, through building your own CUSTOM BULLETS and doing your own reloading. I've included the URL and I promise you one thing from this, which is:
Knowledge is costly;
[ol][*]It's costly to obtain (books, experience, CD's, DVD's, VHS Video tapes, School course works, apprentiship training, etc.)[*]It's costly NOT to learn because you remain captive to all other sources which are vested with the knowledgebase you do not have... (Store bought ammunition in this instance, Federal regulations which restrict and limit your access to purchasing or other ownership BATF, etc.)[/ol]Therefore, I present you with an alternative thought process, which will allow you to custom build almost any type of bullet design you can mentally invent and in some instances, simply copy that which currently exists and to which modifications of personal choice may be applied or adapted.
[/blockquote]Some years back, I purchased used, several sets of "SWAGING" bullet dies and ever since that time in 1998, I've not once, had to purchase a single round of ammunition from any retailer.
It wasn't that I was cheap, simply that the type and forms of shooting I do, is costly, and usually, I use up a moderate sum of ammunition 1-200 rounds per session.
Using a center-fire Remington model seven (.17REM) (which is a necked down .223 case) this gets expensive rather fast. More specifically, the bullet is made by using a resizing die through which a .22cal LR is pressed to become .172 cal. While I'm focusing on the .172 cal, most of this information has applicaiton to most other cal's up and including 50 BMG.
Anyway,the point I'm attempting to make is that through swaging your own bullet, you can obtain a custom bullet(s) which you simply can not purchase.
The next difficulty is with the availability or choice of bullet used in store bought rounds, normaly FMJ's or JHP's.
I prefer, a bullet, between 18 and 28gm, with a PolyTip (round balls of most any form of plastic or similar materials), HotFire-Phosphorous base insert (makes following the trail of the bullet to target really neat and illuminating), Rebated-Boat-tail, with a core of (Lead, Copper, Brass, Steel, Nickle, etc.) and to top all this off, in some instances, a small fluid filling of "Mercury, Water, Hydro-carbon fluid such as Oil, Grease, or some other NON-COMPRESSABLE LIQUID".
Take all of the previously stated information and you then SWAGE (high pressure compression) the elements into one single specialty or highly custom, bullet of your own creation. Instead of paying $0.25 per bullet at Horn...., my cost is nothing more than my time, equipment, and various component parts, so a cost of maybe, $0.05 cents, and that's pushing it!
Here I will stop and the following is a basic quotation from Mr. Corbin's website. I sincerely hope this information will empower at least some of you with a learning process, and knowledge base concept, you may not have thought about previous to reading this posting.
Here's wishing you a higher level of personal freedom than you may have had yesterday!
---Bob Catt - Tucson, AZ (17-May-2007)---
REFERENCE WEBSITE: http://www.corbins.com/starting.htm
Sub-caliber bullets are those smaller than the standard .224 diameter, which includes these standard Corbin sizes: [ul][*].204 (5mm or 20 caliber)[*].172 (17 caliber)[*].145 (14 caliber)[*].123 (12 caliber) [/ul] The main difference between sub-calibers and larger calibers is the jacket. Corbin has .172 jackets available, but typically jackets for sub-calibers are drawn from .224 jackets, and trimmed to desired length using a jacket trim die.
Lead wire is available down to .172 caliber size, which is .125 diameter to fit the .17 jacket. For .14 and .12 caliber, you will need a LED-2-S lead wire extruder to make .100 and .090 lead wire. While sub-cals can be formed from annealed copper wire, the lower BC of such projectiles tends to make them inferior to drawn jacketed bullets filled with lead.
To make .145 caliber bullets, one could use .030 copper strip and the Corbin JMK-1-S jacket making kit, or simply draw down a .172 or a .224 jacket. The .123 caliber bullet would be another draw for the .145 caliber jacket.
Long heavy .172 caliber bullet jackets can be made from either .224 or 6mm jackets (using two draws).
The most typical ogive shape for sub-cal bullets is 6-S, but experimental .172's have been made with 10-S ogives.
The first step in swaging any bullet is adjusting the weight of the core. The core can be lead, or some other material. It can also be the entire bullet (for lead bullets), or just the filling for the jacket (which is the cup or shell around the core). This is an optional but highly recommended first step. You can skip it and make sure your cut or cast cores are as accurate in weight as possible by careful preparation. In that case you do not need the core swage (CSW) die.
The bullet can be made in one step if it has no jacket, and can have a shoulder between the shank and nose. It can be made in two steps, in a core swage and a core seat die, if it has a jacket that does not go past the shoulder. If it has a flat, cup, dish, or hollow base, it can be made in three dies, without a shoulder, with or without a jacket. The jacket can be put in backward to make a full metal jacket, or the lead core can be shorter than the jacket for an open tip. Rebated boattail bases and lead tips are created with other steps. No more than five basic operations are required for swaging any of the bullet styles.
Each step is a single stroke of the press. Each stroke takes from 2 to 5 seconds, depending on the press and the particular operation. Simple lead bullets can be made at 10-12 per minute, jacketed semi-wadcutters at 5-6 per minute, full jackets, soft or hollow point flat bases at 3-4 per minute, and rebated boattail open tips at 2-3 per minute.
The important thing to keep in mind about swaging is that the process works by putting very high pressure on the filling or core, which compresses in length and expands in diameter, pushing the jacket (if used) into exact conformity with the inside of the die. The component you are swaging expands in diameter. When you release the pressure to eject the bullet, the materials shrink back very slightly to release from the die. The jacket stretches, and every void within the sealed die is filled with material. Whatever pressure is applied to the core, or base of the bullet, is also applied to every other part.
============end===========
Lot's more follows at http://www.corbins.com/starting.htm
and here the fun just begins.
--ALL THE VERY BEST TO EACH OF YOU--
The next and following message will give you some additional info from his webpages to contemplate.
