Sylvan

With regard to doe:buck ratios.....

The term doe to buck ratio is thrown around a lot but it’s a number that needs to be qualified in order to be understood. There are actually 3 distinctly different doe:buck ratios that are of significance. They are total, mature and perceived. Total is the ratio of all females to males, mature is all sexually mature females to males and perceived which is what most hunters generally mean when they use the term. The perceived ratio is not a doe:buck ratio at all but rather the ratio of antlered to non-antlered deer. These 3 ratios are quite different and are most meaningful only in their proper context. For example if your talking about breeding, the mature ratio is of more significance than perceived and inversely if you are talking about hunter satisfaction, the perceived is more meaningful.

Another extremely important qualification in regard to understanding the doe:buck ratio term is WHEN in the yearly cycle it is being applied. A 4:1 ratio just before hunting season opens can easily become 15 or 20 to 1 by the end of the season so it would be quite misleading to use a “mid or late season perceived ratio” as “THE doe to buck ratio”.

You will often hear hunters talk about the doe:buck ratio being 9 or 10 to 1 in there area but to put in perspective how misleading this statement can be, consider this. If in a population of whitetail deer we make the following assumptions:

- NO females die until they are 5 ½ years old
- ALL 1 ½ year old or older males die either during or shortly after hunting season ends
- All mature females give birth to 1 buck and 1 doe fawn

then the following is a mathematical certainty for the beginning of hunting season:

- Total doe:buck = 1.61
- Total mature doe:buck = 2.57
- Total perceived doe:buck = 5.71

Because this scenario will tend to make these ratios as high as possible we can say that in any realistic scenario, the total doe:buck ratio can not exceed 1.61 at the beginning of the season.

ddear

Is there enough info in my original example to run the model. If there is , I would be very interested in the harvests the model would project. But, Maybe you have to have the harvests to run the model in the first place, so maybe it wouldn't work.

bawanajim

This is why the PGC is fast becoming public enemy # 1.Every one has a differant goal.I live in Crawford County.We have some of the best deer cover in the state.With alot of small tracks of private land we have avoided the deer kill that some of the central areas have suffered.Those of you that share the tree huggers point of view and get more joy from spying neotropical birds and some realy cute ferns get out there early and shoot a big doe,but don't bitch about all the posted signs you will see.The PGC needs to let hunters know where they want all these tree destroying deer killed (i.e.) maps.Not all of PA land owners hate deer !If you believe that your children will be growing up in treeless abysse as Gary Alt states go kill what you legally are allowed.But don't blame the land owners for protecting the deer we love to hunt.As for you people in the middle of the state where the state and large paper co.own most of the land you are just screwed.[:'(]

Sylvan

That's right. All the model does is allow you to

1) set an initial population. That is numbers of dear by sex and age.
2) set the rate that each age/sex group dies by either hunters or other causes.
3) project those results of any number of years

In the example I showed it is saying that in hunting seasdon, 18% of button bucks die and 80% of 1 1/2 or older bucks die. It's also saying 18% of 6 month females die and 36% of adult females. All 6 1/2 year olds die.

Its also saying 10% of newborn fawns don't make it to 6 months and adult females up to 5 1/2 years give birth to 1 buck and 1 doe. Birth values can be decimals if you like.

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ddear

Thanks for the answer.

You obviously have a good understanding of herd dynamics , so why dont you take a crack at my example. Could it be you don't want to end the discussion with your answer?

doughboysigep

interesting stuff Sylvan

mysticguido

Shoot a doe grow a buck... As far a BB's go Let Them Grow, But if it is in bad shape take it out... What I mean is if it isn't going to make it past winter take em out... keep the heard in check

BTBowhunter

Gotta admit, my head hurts from trying to read this but I'm sorry to say I smell a setup for anyone who tries to respond. Why else would you make contradictory statements in your question? First, you ask that we assume that 11 adult does generate 10 fawns then you tell us to assume that adult does will produce 2 fawns each. That'd be 22. Too much wiggle room to turn anyones resonses into a solution that coincides with the questioners agenda sounds like GIGO to me. ( Garbage In Garbage Out)

ddear

Remember I said the 10 fawns recruited ,was net recruitment. That meant it accounted for 48% fawn moratliy and adult non-hunting mortality. Therefore , it is perfectlly logical that the herd would only produce a net recruitment of 10 fawns.

There is no agenda here and there is a perfectly logical answer to the question.