Post your take on the NY DEC meetings across the state
02-18-2005, 02:30 PM
#21
Spike
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 63
RE: Post your take on the NY DEC meetings across the state
True, but I am not sure what you disagree with. I am familar with the process of setting public policy. I did not state that biologists set public policy nor did I intend to make that implication. I was being sarcastic; the ham raffle guy is probably a great fellow and his opinion is valuable, but it is an example of how ridiculous hunter/DEC communication has become. We are inventing problems to fight the DEC over. The DEC is offering an opportunity to EXPAND hunting seasons during an era of unprecedented national anti-hunting sentiment. And our response is no way because if I am hunting on day X with weapon Z then I can't shoot deer Y with tag W.
02-18-2005, 02:37 PM
#22
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Caledonia, NY
Posts: 773
RE: Post your take on the NY DEC meetings across the state
ORIGINAL: Newtown
True, but I am not sure what you disagree with. I am familar with the process of setting public policy. I did not state that biologists set public policy nor did I intend to make that implication. I was being sarcastic; the ham raffle guy is probably a great fellow and his opinion is valuable, but it is an example of how ridiculous hunter/DEC communication has become. We are inventing problems to fight the DEC over. The DEC is offering an opportunity to EXPAND hunting seasons during an era of unprecedented national anti-hunting sentiment. And our response is no way because if I am hunting on day X with weapon Z then I can't shoot deer Y with tag W.
True, but I am not sure what you disagree with. I am familar with the process of setting public policy. I did not state that biologists set public policy nor did I intend to make that implication. I was being sarcastic; the ham raffle guy is probably a great fellow and his opinion is valuable, but it is an example of how ridiculous hunter/DEC communication has become. We are inventing problems to fight the DEC over. The DEC is offering an opportunity to EXPAND hunting seasons during an era of unprecedented national anti-hunting sentiment. And our response is no way because if I am hunting on day X with weapon Z then I can't shoot deer Y with tag W.
02-18-2005, 08:19 PM
#23
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Delhi, NY (by way of Chenango Forks)
Posts: 1,706
RE: Post your take on the NY DEC meetings across the state
forgive me, but...
"morons" are morons
ignorant people are ignorant, no matter how good or bad they "speak"
those that are "ignorant" tend to be the most boastful, brash, loud, and usually, DON'T know what they are talking about.
yes, they have opinions, but that doesn't mean they know $h!t about jack nuthin'
Most don't even try to understand the multiple facets of arguements, it's their way or no way. I've got no use for that "type" of people.
"morons" are morons
ignorant people are ignorant, no matter how good or bad they "speak"
those that are "ignorant" tend to be the most boastful, brash, loud, and usually, DON'T know what they are talking about.
yes, they have opinions, but that doesn't mean they know $h!t about jack nuthin'
Most don't even try to understand the multiple facets of arguements, it's their way or no way. I've got no use for that "type" of people.
02-22-2005, 07:00 PM
#24
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Brockport, NY
Posts: 613
RE: Post your take on the NY DEC meetings across the state
The military makes those decisions, and advises the president, who then makes the final decision.
The DEC has to hold open meetings for the public, its just how its done. Then they go ahead and do what theyre trained to do.
Newtown mentioned that we might be making our own problems by fighting the DEC during a time when anti hunting is popular, or words to that effect. Remember, this particular decision does not have to go before any lawmakers that can nix it and other law. It is, however, a shame when it appears that the sportsmen dont trust the DEC. Ive had a few very interesting conversations with these guys since the last meeting. Some of you might do well to look beyong those silly public forums. I was at one, I saw how silly!
The DEC has to hold open meetings for the public, its just how its done. Then they go ahead and do what theyre trained to do.
Newtown mentioned that we might be making our own problems by fighting the DEC during a time when anti hunting is popular, or words to that effect. Remember, this particular decision does not have to go before any lawmakers that can nix it and other law. It is, however, a shame when it appears that the sportsmen dont trust the DEC. Ive had a few very interesting conversations with these guys since the last meeting. Some of you might do well to look beyong those silly public forums. I was at one, I saw how silly!
02-22-2005, 07:58 PM
#25
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: cazenovia, NY USA
Posts: 2,973
RE: Post your take on the NY DEC meetings across the state
I'll tip my hat to the DEC for their efforts.
Many of us will remember that the seeds for proposed changes go all the way back to 2001 when many hunters received surveys, and were invited to give their input. I've given my input to the Region 7 folks, and through the sureveys I filled out.
It seems to me that the DEC has listened to what alot of us have been saying - and still are saying. I do not agree with every proposed change - but I applaude their efforst to try to make many interests happy - and manage a deer herd at the same time. I think its up to the DEC to look past ignorance - and address the questions or educate the public. I think so far they have done a good job.
Many of us will remember that the seeds for proposed changes go all the way back to 2001 when many hunters received surveys, and were invited to give their input. I've given my input to the Region 7 folks, and through the sureveys I filled out.
It seems to me that the DEC has listened to what alot of us have been saying - and still are saying. I do not agree with every proposed change - but I applaude their efforst to try to make many interests happy - and manage a deer herd at the same time. I think its up to the DEC to look past ignorance - and address the questions or educate the public. I think so far they have done a good job.
02-24-2005, 08:41 AM
#27
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Altmar New York USA
Posts: 1,247
RE: Post your take on the NY DEC meetings across the state
I attended the region 6 meeting lastnight in Watertown. I had considered attending the earlier Region 7 meeting in Syracuse, but thought I'd go north and get more input on the Northern zone being a Northern zone region.
I found the meeting to be pretty well done by the DEC, we had probably close to 150 people show up. I counted 55 in the first 4 rows, so it could've been more yet. I didn't run into some of the ignorance many of you have posted here. We had a real good group, and most asked, commented on some very good points. The DEC presented their side w/ the slide show, and then explained most of it. Then had a question answering session, then a comment section where anyone could go up front and comment to the whole group. Very interesting.
There was quite abit of discussion on the AR, and one gentleman asked for a show of hands from the group on who was all for it across NY. I'd have to guess at least half or better was for AR across NYS.
There was less talk then I expected on the 7day ML season in the middle of archery. But 1 gentlement in the comment session spoke opposing any ml season during the southern archery season, and the group gave him a big applause. He pointed out ml hunters can come to the northern zone to hunt that 7 day ml season, and maybe add a late season all across the northern zone for ml's. Currently only a couple DMU's in the north have a late season. Plus the deer have become spooked once the ml's fire off in the North, and bowhunting becomes nearly impossible. I've found this to be very true where I hunt in the North.
There was also alot of discussion concerning our youth's future in hunting this state. One of the DEC's charts showed the average age for hunters is 49yrs old now. That drew alot of concern. Basically the only solutions made to better this was to get the age limits lowered, possibly getting some sort of hunter education into our schools, and just take your kids hunting as much as possible.
There was also concern of poachers, and law breakers in regards to doe permits misuse. Including Nuisance, and landowner permits. The DEC basically asked us as a group to report such problems, and get as much information as you can. A gentleman made a very interesting point here saying. Well I'm not going to just walk up to a guy to check the tag on the deer to see if its legit for that area. He recommended the DEC use some sort of color coding for certain type licenses so they are easily identifiable. Like they used to be different colors each yr.
Far as the Northern zone like I expected there is much talk of extending the archery season in Sept., and maybe more ml time as well. But thats for another year, and the DEC asked for more input to get that moving. So write those letters guys!
The topic of Mountian Lions, Cougars, Wolves being released by the DEC is false they claim. However the DEC did say that they are not saying sightings have not occurred in NY. It is possible for such animals to enter NY from other states, and he knows places in PA where cubs can be purchased as pets. Perhaps owners have released them after they became to big to handle. I personnally wondered if that comment is going to be a cover up. But who knows, either way it'd be hard to prove.
The DEC informed the group that due to winters, and perhaps miscalculations of permits, and better success rates by hunters the deer population is down in almost half the DMU's of this state. So naturally they are cutting way back on permits for several DMU's. I noticed quite a few areas for 2005 as NO permits to be issued, 7m once again being 1. I can't recall everyone or how many exactly.
The DEC also spoke of perhaps redoing a few boundary lines on some DMU's. Mainly becasue they are finding some DMU's have areas of over population while other sections are under populated. 6G was a perfect example of this. The RT. 3 corridor has been over populated, but go east along RT. 177 and the numbers are down.
Future plans of the DEC are to get this proposal in the making before printing time of June 1st for the 2005 season. They seem pretty animate on the 7 day ml season in the middle of Oct. Least that was my impression. Other future goals are to work on extending the Northern Zone. To work on a solution for the private land no hunting problem. Where deer are populating over the public land areas. But they have no answer for this right now. But it is in there goals to some how find a fix.
On a personal level I'm still questioning why the DEC wants to place the 7day ML season in the middle of archery. Their only reasoning was becasue of the rut, which I agree. But no real reason not to make it earlier like Oct.1st. They just basically said earlier didn't seem like a good time. But also the only point the DEC made for the ml season was to make more opportunities for hunters, because of the decreasing license sales, and hunters. Now this part confused me. They presented one chart showing from 1990 to 2003 the decline in license sales in NYS. From 600,000 sales in 1990 to 450,000 in 2003-4. It was almost a 150,000 drop in sales since 1990! Then another chart showed the estimated number of hunters in NYS as 600,000, but he said it was more like 580,000 for 2004. So I guess I'm correct to presume hunters are just not purchasing licenses! I had my question answered, and I guess I was confused. I was under the impression from writings on the DEC websight, that archery was being allowed during the 7 day ml season. But for antlerless only, and with only DMP tags. But they told me archers are only restricted to antlerless deer, but can still use their antleress tag on top of a DMP if recieve one. A relief there I was afraid I couldn't hunt with my bow for 7 days if didn't get a DMP.
Well that pretty much covers it for the most part. I was glad I went, and found it well worth while.
I found the meeting to be pretty well done by the DEC, we had probably close to 150 people show up. I counted 55 in the first 4 rows, so it could've been more yet. I didn't run into some of the ignorance many of you have posted here. We had a real good group, and most asked, commented on some very good points. The DEC presented their side w/ the slide show, and then explained most of it. Then had a question answering session, then a comment section where anyone could go up front and comment to the whole group. Very interesting.
There was quite abit of discussion on the AR, and one gentleman asked for a show of hands from the group on who was all for it across NY. I'd have to guess at least half or better was for AR across NYS.
There was less talk then I expected on the 7day ML season in the middle of archery. But 1 gentlement in the comment session spoke opposing any ml season during the southern archery season, and the group gave him a big applause. He pointed out ml hunters can come to the northern zone to hunt that 7 day ml season, and maybe add a late season all across the northern zone for ml's. Currently only a couple DMU's in the north have a late season. Plus the deer have become spooked once the ml's fire off in the North, and bowhunting becomes nearly impossible. I've found this to be very true where I hunt in the North.
There was also alot of discussion concerning our youth's future in hunting this state. One of the DEC's charts showed the average age for hunters is 49yrs old now. That drew alot of concern. Basically the only solutions made to better this was to get the age limits lowered, possibly getting some sort of hunter education into our schools, and just take your kids hunting as much as possible.
There was also concern of poachers, and law breakers in regards to doe permits misuse. Including Nuisance, and landowner permits. The DEC basically asked us as a group to report such problems, and get as much information as you can. A gentleman made a very interesting point here saying. Well I'm not going to just walk up to a guy to check the tag on the deer to see if its legit for that area. He recommended the DEC use some sort of color coding for certain type licenses so they are easily identifiable. Like they used to be different colors each yr.
Far as the Northern zone like I expected there is much talk of extending the archery season in Sept., and maybe more ml time as well. But thats for another year, and the DEC asked for more input to get that moving. So write those letters guys!
The topic of Mountian Lions, Cougars, Wolves being released by the DEC is false they claim. However the DEC did say that they are not saying sightings have not occurred in NY. It is possible for such animals to enter NY from other states, and he knows places in PA where cubs can be purchased as pets. Perhaps owners have released them after they became to big to handle. I personnally wondered if that comment is going to be a cover up. But who knows, either way it'd be hard to prove.
The DEC informed the group that due to winters, and perhaps miscalculations of permits, and better success rates by hunters the deer population is down in almost half the DMU's of this state. So naturally they are cutting way back on permits for several DMU's. I noticed quite a few areas for 2005 as NO permits to be issued, 7m once again being 1. I can't recall everyone or how many exactly.
The DEC also spoke of perhaps redoing a few boundary lines on some DMU's. Mainly becasue they are finding some DMU's have areas of over population while other sections are under populated. 6G was a perfect example of this. The RT. 3 corridor has been over populated, but go east along RT. 177 and the numbers are down.
Future plans of the DEC are to get this proposal in the making before printing time of June 1st for the 2005 season. They seem pretty animate on the 7 day ml season in the middle of Oct. Least that was my impression. Other future goals are to work on extending the Northern Zone. To work on a solution for the private land no hunting problem. Where deer are populating over the public land areas. But they have no answer for this right now. But it is in there goals to some how find a fix.
On a personal level I'm still questioning why the DEC wants to place the 7day ML season in the middle of archery. Their only reasoning was becasue of the rut, which I agree. But no real reason not to make it earlier like Oct.1st. They just basically said earlier didn't seem like a good time. But also the only point the DEC made for the ml season was to make more opportunities for hunters, because of the decreasing license sales, and hunters. Now this part confused me. They presented one chart showing from 1990 to 2003 the decline in license sales in NYS. From 600,000 sales in 1990 to 450,000 in 2003-4. It was almost a 150,000 drop in sales since 1990! Then another chart showed the estimated number of hunters in NYS as 600,000, but he said it was more like 580,000 for 2004. So I guess I'm correct to presume hunters are just not purchasing licenses! I had my question answered, and I guess I was confused. I was under the impression from writings on the DEC websight, that archery was being allowed during the 7 day ml season. But for antlerless only, and with only DMP tags. But they told me archers are only restricted to antlerless deer, but can still use their antleress tag on top of a DMP if recieve one. A relief there I was afraid I couldn't hunt with my bow for 7 days if didn't get a DMP.
Well that pretty much covers it for the most part. I was glad I went, and found it well worth while.
02-24-2005, 03:49 PM
#28
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Brockport, NY
Posts: 613
RE: Post your take on the NY DEC meetings across the state
Buckalley, no, its not a cover-up. They have not released those predators. Yes, some states still allow captive reared Mt lions, etc. The few we ever see are likely escaped captives, thus the tags. Its not only possible, but likely, and no, not a cover-up.
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