Jan meeting for pa
01-23-2005, 07:38 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2004
Location:
Posts: 255
Jan meeting for pa
The sportsmen of pa were represented well at this years January PGC meeting in Harrisburg.
I have notes I took, and hope to add to this post later with more details of what was said.
But just quickly, Pa hunters should be proud of those who made the trip to Harrisburg to speak. I have attended meetings for years, and this year the sportsmen hit all of the major issues with very organized speakers. We truly have something to be proud of this year.
The game commission is made up of 8 members normally. Two positions are vacant currently and at the start of the meeting only 4 commissioners were present. Palone was flying, and was late. Isabella was late.
The vast majority of speakers were not in favor of current deer management program.
I counted 56 actual speakers, by the end several were called but were not present so some were skipped.
Of the first 20 speakers only one was supportive of the PGC plan and he was Craig Sweger of QDMA and he talked the normal ecoweenie rhetoric, nothing new there.
One interesting point in the first 20 speakers was...
#1 a taxidermist who was the 4th speaker, said that he researched taxidermists who he works with or know of (several dozen) and thier business is down 50% per shop. He said that was true last year and this year. He quoted exact numbers and the business taxidermists are losing. (note: last year we heard on msg boards that taxidermists were overworked and had more bucks. This man said that is not even close to true, and that was not just in his region. He spoke to people statewide)
#2 a speaker who is an active farmer, testified that although he does not want an excess of deer, he is here to say that his farm has too few. People all the time say "all farmers want less deer", I counted 5 speakers who identified themselves as farmers who said that they are experiencing low deer numbers and thier families cannot find enough game, or they have concerns about too few deer. One farmer has 700 acres in 2c said he has 200 acres in a co-op and if he does not see changes in Pa her will post all 700 and pull the 200 out of co-op because there are too few.
I would also like to note something the 13th speaker pointed out. The Pa Game News never prints a dissenting view. He listened to the speakers ahead of him who were all critical of the PGC and said that the fact that the PGN never prints anything dissenting is a sign to sportsmen that the PGN is now just a propoganda tool and not dedicated to sportsmen
Of the second 20 speakers there were several professional foresters, and timber company owners who spoke and asked for more herd reductions and more doe tags, more dmap, and said the PGC was doing great and gave them thumbs up.
Kenny Kane and his son Kenny Kane Jr, who spoke last year...
Blaine Puller (sp?) Kane timber lobbyist
Jeff Kockle (sp?) largest timber co in pa, spokesman (Smethport)
Susan Stoudt- fromerly Fed Forester, now lobbying for "Society of American Foresters"
And one of thier sons, I think jeff Kockle's spoke on ecoweenie stuff like saving the environmen. This group all sat together. When they were done speaking, they did not stay to listen to hunters speak. They lobbied for more herd reductions and left.
Also in this time frame were 4 speakers from the Pa farm bureau. They gave a toned down version of thier normal hype. Usually Jeff Grove and company are really nasty, but they watered it down with all the hunters in the room. One commissioner on the break, said that they were worried about a backlash from sportsmen for all thier lobbying for more reductions.
Again....many more sportsmen speaking and representing large groups of hunters. One hunter fro huntingdon Co. presented a petition from 720 hunters, and another from Union county had one with 500 signatures calling for changes and dis-satisfied with the current program.
One Snyder county hunter addressing Commissioner Palone, said that he is not seeing deer even though he has changed hunting locations the last two years. He had talked to approx. 12 landlowners who would not grant him access to private ground. He pointed out several were angry with him for even asking, and it is not as easy as "just moving"
As we moved into the later speakers we had several speakers who were concerned about the PGC's granting trappers the use of snares for k-9's. Most were houndsmen, who do not feel the PGC has listened to the concerns of dog hunters. There were 5 I believe who spoke on that issue.
A biologist with the Army Corps of Engineers from raystown pa spoke and showed a picture of an ifrared survey that they do in thier RAytown lake areas and it showed they have high DD. 50dpsm, and that they are wanting to get it to the PGC goal of 12dpsm. He gave information to the commissioners and was invited to speak to the commissioners privately on the techniques of Infrared survey.
Also represented were speakers who oppose the PGC swapping land with the Pa National Guard in Stony Valley. there were at least 3 who spoke and that is because the valley is within 5 minutes of the PGC HQ
Overall I was really impressed with the 160 or so hunters who put off the football game or traveled in the snow to give testimony. They were asked to put a pin in the Pa map of where they hunt and most were from Central Pa. Not surprising, I do not blame anyone who cannot travel large distances to get there. I live close.
Hunters hit all the major topics, they were very professional, well organized (a bus came down from Union County) and very respectfull.
One of the best examples of outstanding hunter involvement was a man named Phil Wagner of union Co who helped organize the bus trip. He reminded the commissioners of thier trip this fall to Union Co. Palone and Boop were there and Ross. They did driving surveys and saw few deer. isabella stayed into the night to do a infrared night scope survey and afte driving many miles they saw 0 deer. Great job Phil for your efforts, your sticking to facts and for showing the commissioners first hand what hunters are experiencing. We could not ask for more. Again great job.....!!!!
The biggest clown of the day was Steve Trupe of QDMA. Of all the speakers there, he was the only one who took a snotty slap at sportsmen and said that "hunters are just not hunting hard enough, and they just aren't adapting", he is the only one who identified himself as a non-foresterer or PA Farm Bureau who called for more reductions everywhere and more multiple DMAP tags. He did not get any applause, and was pretty much told by several people that he was full of ....
The best line of the whole day was from Martha Decamp, an older woman who hunts with her family including daughters and she said at the close of her comments.... " You can't gather eggs if you kill the hen, and depend just on the rooster!!!"
ATTA GIRL MARTHA!!!
I have notes I took, and hope to add to this post later with more details of what was said.
But just quickly, Pa hunters should be proud of those who made the trip to Harrisburg to speak. I have attended meetings for years, and this year the sportsmen hit all of the major issues with very organized speakers. We truly have something to be proud of this year.
The game commission is made up of 8 members normally. Two positions are vacant currently and at the start of the meeting only 4 commissioners were present. Palone was flying, and was late. Isabella was late.
The vast majority of speakers were not in favor of current deer management program.
I counted 56 actual speakers, by the end several were called but were not present so some were skipped.
Of the first 20 speakers only one was supportive of the PGC plan and he was Craig Sweger of QDMA and he talked the normal ecoweenie rhetoric, nothing new there.
One interesting point in the first 20 speakers was...
#1 a taxidermist who was the 4th speaker, said that he researched taxidermists who he works with or know of (several dozen) and thier business is down 50% per shop. He said that was true last year and this year. He quoted exact numbers and the business taxidermists are losing. (note: last year we heard on msg boards that taxidermists were overworked and had more bucks. This man said that is not even close to true, and that was not just in his region. He spoke to people statewide)
#2 a speaker who is an active farmer, testified that although he does not want an excess of deer, he is here to say that his farm has too few. People all the time say "all farmers want less deer", I counted 5 speakers who identified themselves as farmers who said that they are experiencing low deer numbers and thier families cannot find enough game, or they have concerns about too few deer. One farmer has 700 acres in 2c said he has 200 acres in a co-op and if he does not see changes in Pa her will post all 700 and pull the 200 out of co-op because there are too few.
I would also like to note something the 13th speaker pointed out. The Pa Game News never prints a dissenting view. He listened to the speakers ahead of him who were all critical of the PGC and said that the fact that the PGN never prints anything dissenting is a sign to sportsmen that the PGN is now just a propoganda tool and not dedicated to sportsmen
Of the second 20 speakers there were several professional foresters, and timber company owners who spoke and asked for more herd reductions and more doe tags, more dmap, and said the PGC was doing great and gave them thumbs up.
Kenny Kane and his son Kenny Kane Jr, who spoke last year...
Blaine Puller (sp?) Kane timber lobbyist
Jeff Kockle (sp?) largest timber co in pa, spokesman (Smethport)
Susan Stoudt- fromerly Fed Forester, now lobbying for "Society of American Foresters"
And one of thier sons, I think jeff Kockle's spoke on ecoweenie stuff like saving the environmen. This group all sat together. When they were done speaking, they did not stay to listen to hunters speak. They lobbied for more herd reductions and left.
Also in this time frame were 4 speakers from the Pa farm bureau. They gave a toned down version of thier normal hype. Usually Jeff Grove and company are really nasty, but they watered it down with all the hunters in the room. One commissioner on the break, said that they were worried about a backlash from sportsmen for all thier lobbying for more reductions.
Again....many more sportsmen speaking and representing large groups of hunters. One hunter fro huntingdon Co. presented a petition from 720 hunters, and another from Union county had one with 500 signatures calling for changes and dis-satisfied with the current program.
One Snyder county hunter addressing Commissioner Palone, said that he is not seeing deer even though he has changed hunting locations the last two years. He had talked to approx. 12 landlowners who would not grant him access to private ground. He pointed out several were angry with him for even asking, and it is not as easy as "just moving"
As we moved into the later speakers we had several speakers who were concerned about the PGC's granting trappers the use of snares for k-9's. Most were houndsmen, who do not feel the PGC has listened to the concerns of dog hunters. There were 5 I believe who spoke on that issue.
A biologist with the Army Corps of Engineers from raystown pa spoke and showed a picture of an ifrared survey that they do in thier RAytown lake areas and it showed they have high DD. 50dpsm, and that they are wanting to get it to the PGC goal of 12dpsm. He gave information to the commissioners and was invited to speak to the commissioners privately on the techniques of Infrared survey.
Also represented were speakers who oppose the PGC swapping land with the Pa National Guard in Stony Valley. there were at least 3 who spoke and that is because the valley is within 5 minutes of the PGC HQ
Overall I was really impressed with the 160 or so hunters who put off the football game or traveled in the snow to give testimony. They were asked to put a pin in the Pa map of where they hunt and most were from Central Pa. Not surprising, I do not blame anyone who cannot travel large distances to get there. I live close.
Hunters hit all the major topics, they were very professional, well organized (a bus came down from Union County) and very respectfull.
One of the best examples of outstanding hunter involvement was a man named Phil Wagner of union Co who helped organize the bus trip. He reminded the commissioners of thier trip this fall to Union Co. Palone and Boop were there and Ross. They did driving surveys and saw few deer. isabella stayed into the night to do a infrared night scope survey and afte driving many miles they saw 0 deer. Great job Phil for your efforts, your sticking to facts and for showing the commissioners first hand what hunters are experiencing. We could not ask for more. Again great job.....!!!!
The biggest clown of the day was Steve Trupe of QDMA. Of all the speakers there, he was the only one who took a snotty slap at sportsmen and said that "hunters are just not hunting hard enough, and they just aren't adapting", he is the only one who identified himself as a non-foresterer or PA Farm Bureau who called for more reductions everywhere and more multiple DMAP tags. He did not get any applause, and was pretty much told by several people that he was full of ....
The best line of the whole day was from Martha Decamp, an older woman who hunts with her family including daughters and she said at the close of her comments.... " You can't gather eggs if you kill the hen, and depend just on the rooster!!!"
ATTA GIRL MARTHA!!!
01-23-2005, 08:13 PM
#3
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2004
Location:
Posts: 255
RE: Jan meeting for pa
I really thought like you Mike that there would be no changes, that they would dig in thier heels and stay the course just to spite hunters wishes.
President Schleiden would not even allow anyone to say Gary Alts name in the meeting room. He instructed the speakers at the beginning that they could "not address any individual staff person of the PGC" they must only address comments to 'the commissioners'. (something never done before), and during the meeting several hunters mentioned Vern Ross, Matt Lovello, Jerry Feaser, Mr Ternent the bear guy......but he only interupted on hunter who mentioned Gary Alt and stopped him from speaking after he said "Gary Alt is the Benedict Arnold of Pa." !!!
Shows the double standard, for them trying to protect thier golden boy, even after he is no longer an employee.
But.......after this meeting, with such good representation of hunters, I would be shocked if they do nothing. It would be too much of a slap in the face. Several speakers said they would not hunt in pa again if changes are not made.
I think some will be made.
President Schleiden would not even allow anyone to say Gary Alts name in the meeting room. He instructed the speakers at the beginning that they could "not address any individual staff person of the PGC" they must only address comments to 'the commissioners'. (something never done before), and during the meeting several hunters mentioned Vern Ross, Matt Lovello, Jerry Feaser, Mr Ternent the bear guy......but he only interupted on hunter who mentioned Gary Alt and stopped him from speaking after he said "Gary Alt is the Benedict Arnold of Pa." !!!
Shows the double standard, for them trying to protect thier golden boy, even after he is no longer an employee.
But.......after this meeting, with such good representation of hunters, I would be shocked if they do nothing. It would be too much of a slap in the face. Several speakers said they would not hunt in pa again if changes are not made.
I think some will be made.
01-23-2005, 08:42 PM
#4
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Central PA
Posts: 2,299
RE: Jan meeting for pa
Good report chickory. Though we don't always share the same views, it is nice to hear that the PA sportsman are joined together. Please don't misunderstand, I am not in favor of going back to the old way completely. But I think we need to make some changes to this "system".
On the note of "trying to protect the golden boy".
Its simply sheer respect for the man. He never attacked anyone personally and was only doing what he thought was the correct approach. Right or wrong, it still gives no one the right to disrespect him.
On the note of "trying to protect the golden boy".
Its simply sheer respect for the man. He never attacked anyone personally and was only doing what he thought was the correct approach. Right or wrong, it still gives no one the right to disrespect him.
01-23-2005, 10:32 PM
#6
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Pa.
Posts: 554
RE: Jan meeting for pa
After watching the smurks on some of the commissioners faces while the hunters were pleading their case's, I don't think any changes will be made next season.
They were more interested in the football score than the speakers !!!
They were more interested in the football score than the speakers !!!
01-24-2005, 08:16 AM
#7
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location:
Posts: 205
RE: Jan meeting for pa
Chickory I was one of the 5 that spoke as a farmer! I have no problem with seeing some deer around my place. There are too few now!
I also suggested cutting back on archery season and haveing archers earn a buck by first harvesting a doe! WB
I also suggested cutting back on archery season and haveing archers earn a buck by first harvesting a doe! WB
01-24-2005, 08:26 AM
#8
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 232
RE: Jan meeting for pa
Here is what Trupe of QDMA was quoted as saying.
So there really isn't less deer, and changing weather patterns are the reason for lower sightings.How does he expect to have any credibility,making statements like that?
Lower kill numbers during the current season are in part a function of weather patterns, said Steve Trupe, with the Quality Deer Management Association, a group that aims to balance deer population with habitat sustainability.
''The deer adapted to the circumstances, the hunters didn't.
It's that simple,'' Trupe said.
''The deer adapted to the circumstances, the hunters didn't.
It's that simple,'' Trupe said.
01-24-2005, 01:53 PM
#10
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2004
Location:
Posts: 255
RE: Jan meeting for pa
ORIGINAL: ddear
Here is what Trupe of QDMA was quoted as saying.
So there really isn't less deer, and changing weather patterns are the reason for lower sightings.How does he expect to have any credibility,making statements like that?
Here is what Trupe of QDMA was quoted as saying.
Lower kill numbers during the current season are in part a function of weather patterns, said Steve Trupe, with the Quality Deer Management Association, a group that aims to balance deer population with habitat sustainability.
''The deer adapted to the circumstances, the hunters didn't.
It's that simple,'' Trupe said.
''The deer adapted to the circumstances, the hunters didn't.
It's that simple,'' Trupe said.
thats too funny! Well, spin is spin and some of the sportswriters are good at it too...
Just an update from the mon. meeting.
Jim Grace from DCNR, Rep Staback, Rep Levdansky, Rep. Gotchalk (sp)
all spoke on the deer issue. The reps basically saying they are hearing a lot from thier districts. And the majority of that is negative. Sen Lisa Boscola, never attended nor spoke as far as I know. I could have missed her but I doubt it.
Jim Grace gave some bureaucrat speak on synergy and forestry and deerestry and admitted that DCNR has some areas of state forests with very very few deer and they still are not regenerating or getting good growth there........ so.........
Each bureau of the PGC gives its little dog and pony show powerpoint presentation, and that info is usually condensed into the next press release. There was nothing new there, as far as wildlife.
the main message the PGC is putting out, and its right on a huge sign in the lobby is "wait and see". They will not know much until the statistics are massaged.
I did talk to some other attendee's who thought, hunters did a good job yesterday. Now its wait and see.