wingbar

what you should be getting is that thye approve of across the board AR and disapprove of HR.
Dr. alt told us we needed to HR because there had to be room for all the bucks we were saving with AR. what really happened is we saved around 10,000 more bucks to 2.5 yrs old but killed (3 yrs in a row) record numbers of does.
THAT is what hunters are !@@##$%ing about! We were lied to by the PGC & ALT! And now have some WMUs nearly devoid of all deer.

Deer902

He never said that. He was trying to balance out the buck:doe ratio.

wingbar

he NEVER said that????
he originally said we had to reduce the herd to have a place to put the 60-65K bucks we were going to carryover to 2.5 yr olds each year. 902 it is little wonder you think Alt was a savior if this is the type of stuff you believe

Deer902

Show me.

wingbar

go to PGC website do your own search on releases I'm not doing your foot work

Deer902

Thats because he didn't say it. You can add all the words you want, but can't back it up.

Rick James

Well I didn't take the time to read through 9 pages of anti/pro AR comments, but I can tell you that I will always continue going to PA. I hunt Vermont and PA every year, when in PA I hunt both Huntington and Bradford counties, and despite all the complaints, the PA hunting is still better than anything I have ever seen in New England. I see both more deer and bigger deer (antler wise) in PA than anywhere I have been in New England. I now actually shoot more deer in PA since HR and AR, because I only get to hunt the first rifle season and can now shoot a doe if I desire, where before I could only shoot a buck. There is a lot more meat in my freezer now than before AR. I am not saying I am pro HR, because I am not really, but I am pro AR and certainly hope that VT reduces the amount of yearling bucks taken each year. I do hunt for meat but I also like to take a bigger buck as well, if I want meat from Vermont I kill a doe with my bow.

Now in your above statement, you mentioned that you think "hunters" wont return. Are you a meat hunter? Then why do AR's even bother you? If you can't eat horns, shoot a doe or button buck!?! Why a small buck if meat is all that matters? Maybe your definition of a hunter is someone that goes out for meat with horns.....and wont shoot a doe? There are more deer being killed in PA than ever before right now!

VA HEAD HUNTER

as far as the term trophy hunting goes. anyone in the woods hunting deer should be meat hunters. if your not going to eat what you kill then there is no reason you should even be in the woods. but i myself do hunt for the trophies and what i mean by trophies i mean the most mature animal i can take. i go for the big does and the big bucks. i eat everything i harvest and i still have not heard a good explanation why it is good to be shooting small immature animals especially when there is a population problem of deer. i have heard the statement that every deer is a trophy for that person and that may be but that still doesnt help the deer numbers. i mean seriouslly nobody on here is hunting for survival. if you have enough money for a computer and internet then im sure you can afford food so lets hear a good explanation why you feel it necessary to take immature animals out of the breeding cycle. if you take a doe out that has bred once or a buck that has bred one year then the herd suffers. doe management is far more important to the success of the herd then anything else. pa is going to always have problems with this issue and these message boards are going to go nowhere on this subject because too many people want the instant gratification of taking an animal and are not commited to actual deer management. the most important thing that we should understand is that hunting is all about the experience and the connection with the outdoors that draws us all to the woods every fall and thats the way it should be. harvesting a quality animal is the reward of the work put in by those in the woods. if the numbers of deer are dwindling then it is the responsibility of every person in the woods to make a consious decision to take mature animals so that the younger animals have time to reproduce for a couple years. and also more does then bucks need to be harvested. but do yourself a favor and go for the mature ones and let the younger ones reproduce. thats the only way to replenish the herd numbers. this isnt directed to any one person here it is directed to those selfish hunters that live for today and not for tomorrow. and remember if things are bad now and nothing is done about it think about what its going to be like for your kids that are getting into the great outdoors in the future

vtbuckrulrss

the biggest reason that ar's bother me is this: as you well know, hunting deer in vermont can be tough, i am sure that we both know people that no matter what, can't seem to see a buck, or any deer for that matter to save their lives. let's say that they only are a rifle hunter, which for those that don't know this means for example that in vt., we can only shoot a buck with at least one antler measuring 3'". i think it a bunch of crap that for that person, when the moment arrives that they finally do see a buck, if it doesn't meet the ar criteria, they go home emptyhanded. while they can up their chances by trying different methods, such as a bow, of hunting, not everyone does. personally, i rarely have a freezer without venison, but i have a friend that is my age, 36, and has only put a tag on one deer in over 20 years of hunting, and he rifle, bow, and muzzleloads. if we had the kind of population problem pa does, with many doe tags given out, perhaps i wouldn't hate ar's and the thought of them, i would be at least able to shoot a doe for the freezer. but i think it is wrong for the elite few with enough money in their pockets that they can push their ajenda(?) through a state agency just for the sake of being able to put another head on the wall, when the only good reason for ar's to me is to keep the herd healthy. and so far, from what i have read, it hasn't convinced me that ar's were put in place in pa for anything other than the greed of a few, dr. alt included.

rybohunter

AR's are not going to create giant monster bucks on a widespread basis, so its not about growing big bucks for the greedy few. Its original intent was to reduce the massive slaughter of 1st year bucks, and try to change the PA mentality of shooting every buck they see. Which in turn is going to produce some nicer bucks in the state and give a more balanced age structure. When you let bucks age and reach thier potential, then you are letting them sort out the best genes to pass on. We shoot nearly all our bucks before that is able to happen in this state. PA did have tons of does and that was offered in exchange for not getting to shoot any little buck, you could shoot a doe for meat. That worked perfect and now there are certainly less deer. I don't know what to say about your friend, there are either NO deer at all where he hunts or he's really bad at this hunting thing. You can't base deer management on the sympathy feelings for your buddy.