how many won't hunt PA again bc/ of ar's?
01-11-2005, 01:52 PM
#91
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: how many won't hunt PA again bc/ of ar's?
Well said Rybo!
Pa will never be a big buck state but we can certainly continue to strive for a deer herd that is in balance with the habitat and in B/D balance.
Oh, and a by product is a few more mature bucks out there! Deal!
The only down side is a few less deer in the big woods.... Deal!
Pa will never be a big buck state but we can certainly continue to strive for a deer herd that is in balance with the habitat and in B/D balance.
Oh, and a by product is a few more mature bucks out there! Deal!
The only down side is a few less deer in the big woods.... Deal!
01-11-2005, 01:57 PM
#92
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 4,679
RE: how many won't hunt PA again bc/ of ar's?
ORIGINAL: vtbuckrulrss
the biggest reason that ar's bother me is this: as you well know, hunting deer in vermont can be tough, i am sure that we both know people that no matter what, can't seem to see a buck, or any deer for that matter to save their lives. let's say that they only are a rifle hunter, which for those that don't know this means for example that in vt., we can only shoot a buck with at least one antler measuring 3'". i think it a bunch of crap that for that person, when the moment arrives that they finally do see a buck, if it doesn't meet the ar criteria, they go home emptyhanded. while they can up their chances by trying different methods, such as a bow, of hunting, not everyone does. personally, i rarely have a freezer without venison, but i have a friend that is my age, 36, and has only put a tag on one deer in over 20 years of hunting, and he rifle, bow, and muzzleloads. if we had the kind of population problem pa does, with many doe tags given out, perhaps i wouldn't hate ar's and the thought of them, i would be at least able to shoot a doe for the freezer. but i think it is wrong for the elite few with enough money in their pockets that they can push their ajenda(?) through a state agency just for the sake of being able to put another head on the wall, when the only good reason for ar's to me is to keep the herd healthy. and so far, from what i have read, it hasn't convinced me that ar's were put in place in pa for anything other than the greed of a few, dr. alt included.
the biggest reason that ar's bother me is this: as you well know, hunting deer in vermont can be tough, i am sure that we both know people that no matter what, can't seem to see a buck, or any deer for that matter to save their lives. let's say that they only are a rifle hunter, which for those that don't know this means for example that in vt., we can only shoot a buck with at least one antler measuring 3'". i think it a bunch of crap that for that person, when the moment arrives that they finally do see a buck, if it doesn't meet the ar criteria, they go home emptyhanded. while they can up their chances by trying different methods, such as a bow, of hunting, not everyone does. personally, i rarely have a freezer without venison, but i have a friend that is my age, 36, and has only put a tag on one deer in over 20 years of hunting, and he rifle, bow, and muzzleloads. if we had the kind of population problem pa does, with many doe tags given out, perhaps i wouldn't hate ar's and the thought of them, i would be at least able to shoot a doe for the freezer. but i think it is wrong for the elite few with enough money in their pockets that they can push their ajenda(?) through a state agency just for the sake of being able to put another head on the wall, when the only good reason for ar's to me is to keep the herd healthy. and so far, from what i have read, it hasn't convinced me that ar's were put in place in pa for anything other than the greed of a few, dr. alt included.
Edit - It's a shame that you live so far north in VT, if your ever in the Rutland area on a weekend let me know and maybe we can meet up for a beer! I wish I knew other hunters in this part of the state.
01-11-2005, 04:56 PM
#93
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 491
RE: how many won't hunt PA again bc/ of ar's?
When you let bucks age and reach thier potential, then you are letting them sort out the best genes to pass on. We shoot nearly all our bucks before that is able to happen in this state
PA did have tons of does and that was offered in exchange for not getting to shoot any little buck, you could shoot a doe for meat.
01-11-2005, 05:57 PM
#94
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location:
Posts: 205
RE: how many won't hunt PA again bc/ of ar's?
Dead: I wonder how these guys do math when the checkbook needs balanceing? They just don't understand the concept of XX-X = X like you said in an earlier post most any high school senior could figure it out . little wonder they got scammed by Cut N Run
01-12-2005, 05:30 AM
#97
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: how many won't hunt PA again bc/ of ar's?
You don't need a calculator to figure out that less deer = less deer.
01-12-2005, 06:09 AM
#98
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 7,208
RE: how many won't hunt PA again bc/ of ar's?
You didn't harvest the best gened 1.5 year old. Just because it had a bigger 1st year rack doesn;t mean it was better gened. Not every deer is born at the exact same time. I early born buck, is going to be bigger than a late born one 99% of the time.
Our rifle season is AFTER most of the breeding is occured so the genes still get passed on.
WTF do mean WRONG!?!?! There were lots of does.....the PGC said here are some extra doe tags so that when whiny hunters couldn't shoot "thier" buck, they were pretty much garunteed a doe tag to fill. I typed this slow, so hopefully you understand what I am saying.
Our rifle season is AFTER most of the breeding is occured so the genes still get passed on.
quote:
PA did have tons of does and that was offered in exchange for not getting to shoot any little buck, you could shoot a doe for meat.
Wrong!!! PA always had alot of anterless deer and the B/D ratio in the anterless herd as approx. 1:3. We are now harvesting a higher perentage of our buck as anterless deer than ever before and that is why the buck harvest decreased by 30% after just 2 years of AR.
PA did have tons of does and that was offered in exchange for not getting to shoot any little buck, you could shoot a doe for meat.
Wrong!!! PA always had alot of anterless deer and the B/D ratio in the anterless herd as approx. 1:3. We are now harvesting a higher perentage of our buck as anterless deer than ever before and that is why the buck harvest decreased by 30% after just 2 years of AR.
01-12-2005, 11:13 AM
#100
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 491
RE: how many won't hunt PA again bc/ of ar's?
You didn't harvest the best gened 1.5 year old. Just because it had a bigger 1st year rack doesn;t mean it was better gened. Not every deer is born at the exact same time. I early born buck, is going to be bigger than a late born one 99% of the time.
Anyone with the least bit of common sense would realize that a 1.5 6 or 8 pt. has expressed greater genetic potentual for rapidly developing big racks than a 1.5 spike. All the studies show that it takes the 1.5 spike 2 or 3 years to equal the 1.5 6 or 8PT., so that fact by itself makes the spike ,on average the inferior buck.
WTF do mean WRONG!?!?! There were lots of does.....the PGC said here are some extra doe tags so that when whiny hunters couldn't shoot "thier" buck, they were pretty much garunteed a doe tag to fi
BTW, just how many is ,"lots of does." Do doe come in lots? Is that an accepted scientific term commonly used by Alt to misrepresent the B/D .ratio?