insight trickling out...
01-06-2005, 12:20 PM
#12
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location:
Posts: 241
RE: insight trickling out...
The best book ever written on conservation is. The Hunter as a Conservationist. It should be read by all hunters and non-hunters. It keeps it simple. I forgot to take it back to the library 5 years ago. I make my kids read it. Remember don't raise your kids, train them to be young adults.
01-06-2005, 12:53 PM
#13
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2004
Location:
Posts: 255
RE: insight trickling out...
I always thought the best book on conservation was "six legs and buzz...." ?
now lets get back on topic, which was the very insightful article from the news on Dr. Alt hoping
the PGC can be funded by non hunters so that the voice of hunters is no longer as strong as
it once was.
we were discussing how less deer = less deer, with no candy coating
now lets get back on topic, which was the very insightful article from the news on Dr. Alt hoping
the PGC can be funded by non hunters so that the voice of hunters is no longer as strong as
it once was.
we were discussing how less deer = less deer, with no candy coating
01-06-2005, 01:14 PM
#15
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: May 2004
Location:
Posts: 1,188
RE: insight trickling out...
ORIGINAL: Deer902
You guys are truly unbelievable. [:@]
Alt went outside to get funds and views because he knew the SLOB hunters of PA wouldn't stand for a smaller, healthier herd. These deer DO NOT belong only to you just because you have a license to shoot one. He wanted biologists to help make decisions for the betterment of the herd and the hunter. What a crime! He should of just taken a poll of all the know-it-alls around here and he would of gotten all the answers he needed. More deer, more deer, more deer. Its about time you Alt haters take a long look in the mirror and see how greedy you have become. It's a shame when a bunch of arm charm biologists force a man out of a his job for wanting to help us manage the deer we ALL love to watch and hunt.
You guys are truly unbelievable. [:@]
Alt went outside to get funds and views because he knew the SLOB hunters of PA wouldn't stand for a smaller, healthier herd. These deer DO NOT belong only to you just because you have a license to shoot one. He wanted biologists to help make decisions for the betterment of the herd and the hunter. What a crime! He should of just taken a poll of all the know-it-alls around here and he would of gotten all the answers he needed. More deer, more deer, more deer. Its about time you Alt haters take a long look in the mirror and see how greedy you have become. It's a shame when a bunch of arm charm biologists force a man out of a his job for wanting to help us manage the deer we ALL love to watch and hunt.
01-06-2005, 01:50 PM
#16
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Join Date: May 2004
Location:
Posts: 255
RE: insight trickling out...
If the hunters are all just bad people because they want decent numbers of deer to hunt....... then why did Dr. Alt cut n' run? Surely he could just continue to villify hunters as you are doing and point the finger at hunters as bad men, thus justifying more and more reductions.......
hmmmm......
Maybe because he knew from the get-go that he was the hatchet man hired to do one thing..... cut the herd.... then beat feet. I believe he had several opportunities to lobby the legislature to combine the PGC and the DCNR, thus creating exactly what he wanted.
And agency not soley funded by sportsman, led by insightfull conservationists, and funded by both hunters and non hunters.
He voiced his interest in leading such an agency to the legislature during their hearings on the merger...... but it never came to fruition. Did sportsman ruin that for him too?
I hear your " your hunters are greedy and to blame" argument, but it sounds to me like Dr. Alt who was touted as the best mind in Pa wildlife has (and had) failed to develope a plan which would educate hunters, and over time bring our herd into line with what the habitat will support. He himself said in this article that he did not deliver on his promises.
Now your comments are that anyone in pa who does not want a smaller herd is a slob hunter.
I think that kind of discussion is wonderfull for everyone in pa to hear first hand what people think of the situation. The discussion is great for hunting. It allows everyone to see what is going on.
I think that blaming hunters for not wanting a small herd is one way of looking at it, but I would have to look at a state like Michigan as a reference point.....
In Michigan, they have tens of thousands of doe tags go unsold and they do not harvest as many antlerless deer as they do antlered on any consistent basis. Thier herd today is LARGER than pa's yet they shoot less doe than us, keeping thier herd at higher denisties. Pa has harvested more antlerless than antlered for over TEN YEARS....even did before Dr. Alt.
Do we call them slobs in Michigan for it? Nooooooooo, nor should we.
hmmmm......
Maybe because he knew from the get-go that he was the hatchet man hired to do one thing..... cut the herd.... then beat feet. I believe he had several opportunities to lobby the legislature to combine the PGC and the DCNR, thus creating exactly what he wanted.
And agency not soley funded by sportsman, led by insightfull conservationists, and funded by both hunters and non hunters.
He voiced his interest in leading such an agency to the legislature during their hearings on the merger...... but it never came to fruition. Did sportsman ruin that for him too?
I hear your " your hunters are greedy and to blame" argument, but it sounds to me like Dr. Alt who was touted as the best mind in Pa wildlife has (and had) failed to develope a plan which would educate hunters, and over time bring our herd into line with what the habitat will support. He himself said in this article that he did not deliver on his promises.
Now your comments are that anyone in pa who does not want a smaller herd is a slob hunter.
I think that kind of discussion is wonderfull for everyone in pa to hear first hand what people think of the situation. The discussion is great for hunting. It allows everyone to see what is going on.
I think that blaming hunters for not wanting a small herd is one way of looking at it, but I would have to look at a state like Michigan as a reference point.....
In Michigan, they have tens of thousands of doe tags go unsold and they do not harvest as many antlerless deer as they do antlered on any consistent basis. Thier herd today is LARGER than pa's yet they shoot less doe than us, keeping thier herd at higher denisties. Pa has harvested more antlerless than antlered for over TEN YEARS....even did before Dr. Alt.
Do we call them slobs in Michigan for it? Nooooooooo, nor should we.
01-06-2005, 02:08 PM
#17
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2004
Location:
Posts: 255
RE: insight trickling out...
hmmmm I just checked into Arkansas message boards and Arkansas went to AR and HR 5 years before pa did.....
They reduced their populations for only a few seasons and then sportsmen lobbied with their DNR that they were not seeing enough deer. So thier DNR shortened their seasons last year, cut back thier bag limits (less doe tags), and they are now today not shooting as many antler less as they do antlered..............
My goodness.... and yet no one is calling them slobs.
Gee, I guess I addressed that issue pretty darn well.
They reduced their populations for only a few seasons and then sportsmen lobbied with their DNR that they were not seeing enough deer. So thier DNR shortened their seasons last year, cut back thier bag limits (less doe tags), and they are now today not shooting as many antler less as they do antlered..............
My goodness.... and yet no one is calling them slobs.
Gee, I guess I addressed that issue pretty darn well.
01-06-2005, 02:12 PM
#18
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Posts: 947
RE: insight trickling out...
Alt couldn't educate the typical hunter because most of them don't get as involved as you and I. A good number of hunters were at his meetings and saw BIG RACK, but they failed to see the trade off or read further into what we needed to accomplish to help the herd.
Now they're screaming that their aren't any deer left. They've forced Alt out of office because they failed to see the whole picture.
I hope the next guy to step up continues with the program and makes the needed changes to make everyone happy. But I doubt that anyone will have enough guts to do what Alt did and ignore the typical hunter for the overall health of the herd.
Now they're screaming that their aren't any deer left. They've forced Alt out of office because they failed to see the whole picture.
I hope the next guy to step up continues with the program and makes the needed changes to make everyone happy. But I doubt that anyone will have enough guts to do what Alt did and ignore the typical hunter for the overall health of the herd.
01-06-2005, 02:41 PM
#20
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: insight trickling out...
902 I think you underestimate the average hunter out there. I still believe it is a passionate and loud minority that is resisting better management.
It aint a majority just because a few here say it is! Lots of hunters are happy with the way things are headed.
Didnt the media have us convinced that it was inevitable that John Kerry was gonna be prez???
A noisy enough minority can give false impressions!!
It aint a majority just because a few here say it is! Lots of hunters are happy with the way things are headed.
Didnt the media have us convinced that it was inevitable that John Kerry was gonna be prez???
A noisy enough minority can give false impressions!!