Deer management in PA
12-30-2004, 10:29 AM
#1
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 1,149
Deer management in PA
For those of you who are missing the point of HR,let me explain.
The DCNR has determined that deer are destroying the forests therefore they want them exterminated and if hunters can't do the job they'll use other means.Now this tells me they don't recognize hunting as a means of recreation compared to hikers,skiers,bikers,birdwatchers,tourists,etc.The PGC is only interested in saving the forests and giving what the DCNR wants because of threats.They don't care about the private land.Sure there's some farmers complaining about crop damage but let's face it,with the amount of tags handed out today the only farms with too many deer are farms that are posted or surrounded by posted land.In that case the farmers need to take that up with their neighbors.If an area is open to hunting there is not a problem with too many deer eating the crops and if you actually think there is then you need to get out more.It's called access and where there isn't much like in the SW or extreme SE you have overpopulation.
OK so scratch the DCNR from future huntable land,Rendell signed that off to tourism and the tree huggers.That leaves us the gamelands for the unfortunate folks that have to hunt public land.And the last I checked these lands were bought by the hunters to "MANAGE WILDLIFE".Deer does fall under that catagory.First of all that means stick to the plan of clearcutting and stop giving into the extremists like the DCNR did.Secondly offer a $5 fee/tag for the people who want to hunt here with that money going toward habitat improvement.I for one would pay even more then that for an oppertunity for some decent deer hunting.That way the gamelands can be managed for what they were bought for-wildlife management.
I hear folks from the SW say that in the past they had to travel to the NC to hunt for deer and now say people are complaining because the shoe is on the other foot.That arguement doesn't hold water because those people had thousands of acres of state land to roam in which used to be great hunting.That oppertunity doesn't exist in the SW because it's mostly private.
If you are fortunate enough to live within private land and have access don't be selfish and flame others who are complaining about the lack of deer on public land.Listen to these people because there's obviosly a problem here.The forest lands are lost to the tree huggers but we can do something about our wonderful game lands system.
Oh yeah,I hear Alt might be headed to California,he'll fit right in there.
The DCNR has determined that deer are destroying the forests therefore they want them exterminated and if hunters can't do the job they'll use other means.Now this tells me they don't recognize hunting as a means of recreation compared to hikers,skiers,bikers,birdwatchers,tourists,etc.The PGC is only interested in saving the forests and giving what the DCNR wants because of threats.They don't care about the private land.Sure there's some farmers complaining about crop damage but let's face it,with the amount of tags handed out today the only farms with too many deer are farms that are posted or surrounded by posted land.In that case the farmers need to take that up with their neighbors.If an area is open to hunting there is not a problem with too many deer eating the crops and if you actually think there is then you need to get out more.It's called access and where there isn't much like in the SW or extreme SE you have overpopulation.
OK so scratch the DCNR from future huntable land,Rendell signed that off to tourism and the tree huggers.That leaves us the gamelands for the unfortunate folks that have to hunt public land.And the last I checked these lands were bought by the hunters to "MANAGE WILDLIFE".Deer does fall under that catagory.First of all that means stick to the plan of clearcutting and stop giving into the extremists like the DCNR did.Secondly offer a $5 fee/tag for the people who want to hunt here with that money going toward habitat improvement.I for one would pay even more then that for an oppertunity for some decent deer hunting.That way the gamelands can be managed for what they were bought for-wildlife management.
I hear folks from the SW say that in the past they had to travel to the NC to hunt for deer and now say people are complaining because the shoe is on the other foot.That arguement doesn't hold water because those people had thousands of acres of state land to roam in which used to be great hunting.That oppertunity doesn't exist in the SW because it's mostly private.
If you are fortunate enough to live within private land and have access don't be selfish and flame others who are complaining about the lack of deer on public land.Listen to these people because there's obviosly a problem here.The forest lands are lost to the tree huggers but we can do something about our wonderful game lands system.
Oh yeah,I hear Alt might be headed to California,he'll fit right in there.
12-30-2004, 03:08 PM
#4
Fork Horn
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location:
Posts: 377
RE: Deer management in PA
when I pop that cork tommorrow night at 12 midnite I hope it hits Dr. Gary Alt right in the a-- on his way out!
Germain: I understand your thought to the $5 no big deal for anyone to drop a fin these days, but the point is those lands were purchased for wildlife. The PGC gets the tax break on them because of recreation for all Pa's residents, exactly the same as the F&B Comm. gets a break on waterways and surronding lands cause of recreation. As long as it's recreation we the owners of the Gamelands are going to need to get use to the flower sniffers,mtn bikers,etc. While we want them there less they want more access. the issue of timbering is quite different . EVERY hunter should be beatingf on the PGC's door on Jan 23 demanding more harvests of the timber for both habitat and the cash value it represents.
Germain: I understand your thought to the $5 no big deal for anyone to drop a fin these days, but the point is those lands were purchased for wildlife. The PGC gets the tax break on them because of recreation for all Pa's residents, exactly the same as the F&B Comm. gets a break on waterways and surronding lands cause of recreation. As long as it's recreation we the owners of the Gamelands are going to need to get use to the flower sniffers,mtn bikers,etc. While we want them there less they want more access. the issue of timbering is quite different . EVERY hunter should be beatingf on the PGC's door on Jan 23 demanding more harvests of the timber for both habitat and the cash value it represents.
12-30-2004, 03:39 PM
#5
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 1,149
RE: Deer management in PA
Oh I agree with you ulysses.But their arguement is that the deer are also destroying the forest on gamelands.The idea of a fee was just to counter that.They need to include deer as "managing wildlife"The plan they have today isn't managing it's eradicating.
12-31-2004, 11:11 AM
#6
Join Date: May 2004
Location:
Posts: 255
RE: Deer management in PA
IF the deer were really hard on the habitat on SGL's then why has the PGC not enrolled one single SGL into its OWN program DMAP to address it???? I guess we all know the answer to that.... because the PGC does not use science alone to manage deer. Never have, never will.
They have always managed to a social carrying capacity based on some hunters input. They know hunters would have a cow if a SGL were enrolled, if its a state forest the PGC can always point at DCNR as the bad guy.
Some PGC zealots claim that going to the PGC meeting this year will be a waste of time as the PGC is not listening to hunters. (They pretend the PGC is only listening to biologists anymore which is a joke).
Last year not enough momentum had swung, the trip up to Harrisburg was not a real impact, but this year is different. The momentum IS shifting and if hunters turn out in good numbers to speak about the dismal hunting the commission WILL react. Its just whether enough hunters will show up. Last year there was a small turnout. The PGC invited several dozen people from conservation groups, nonhunters and DCNR employees to speak and it offset the hunters opinions.
The state of Pa has always listened to what hunters want.
When the fad of QDM drifted around the east the commissioners did what was normal, they listened to QDM'ers promises of wonderfull hunting in a small herd and combined that with timber companies and convservationists desires for a small herd and put pathetic regs into affect, like AR.
and as is normal, and has happened many times before, hunters sit back and show apathy and take a 'wait and see' attitude.
well.........now they have waited, and they have seen the suky hunting that a smaller herd with the tacky use Antler Restrictions provides. Lowered buck harvests, decreased sightings, lowered hunter satisfaction, and AR is turning off some hunters who don't like the loss of freedom to take a deer of thier choice just to appease some wannabe trophy hunter.
Attending this years meeting will make a difference. The amount of hunters who show up and spleak will directly relate to the regs for the next year. Remember that there are many Alties out there who will be very quick to point it out if only a handfull show up.
Dr. Alt did that last January. After many speakers spoke against his deer plan he dis'd hunters by saying that "we only heard from 50 hunters today, there are a million still out there we have not heard from".
What a snotty slap in the face to those who did go last year. If for nothing else, go to show that he was wrong.
....and take a friend.
....and ask why the commission is not looking for a new Executive Director. This one has led us to 5+ years of lies, misleading, poor communications and smoke and mirrors. Is that what hunters of pa deserve??
They have always managed to a social carrying capacity based on some hunters input. They know hunters would have a cow if a SGL were enrolled, if its a state forest the PGC can always point at DCNR as the bad guy.
Some PGC zealots claim that going to the PGC meeting this year will be a waste of time as the PGC is not listening to hunters. (They pretend the PGC is only listening to biologists anymore which is a joke).
Last year not enough momentum had swung, the trip up to Harrisburg was not a real impact, but this year is different. The momentum IS shifting and if hunters turn out in good numbers to speak about the dismal hunting the commission WILL react. Its just whether enough hunters will show up. Last year there was a small turnout. The PGC invited several dozen people from conservation groups, nonhunters and DCNR employees to speak and it offset the hunters opinions.
The state of Pa has always listened to what hunters want.
When the fad of QDM drifted around the east the commissioners did what was normal, they listened to QDM'ers promises of wonderfull hunting in a small herd and combined that with timber companies and convservationists desires for a small herd and put pathetic regs into affect, like AR.
and as is normal, and has happened many times before, hunters sit back and show apathy and take a 'wait and see' attitude.
well.........now they have waited, and they have seen the suky hunting that a smaller herd with the tacky use Antler Restrictions provides. Lowered buck harvests, decreased sightings, lowered hunter satisfaction, and AR is turning off some hunters who don't like the loss of freedom to take a deer of thier choice just to appease some wannabe trophy hunter.
Attending this years meeting will make a difference. The amount of hunters who show up and spleak will directly relate to the regs for the next year. Remember that there are many Alties out there who will be very quick to point it out if only a handfull show up.
Dr. Alt did that last January. After many speakers spoke against his deer plan he dis'd hunters by saying that "we only heard from 50 hunters today, there are a million still out there we have not heard from".
What a snotty slap in the face to those who did go last year. If for nothing else, go to show that he was wrong.
....and take a friend.
....and ask why the commission is not looking for a new Executive Director. This one has led us to 5+ years of lies, misleading, poor communications and smoke and mirrors. Is that what hunters of pa deserve??
01-01-2005, 06:46 PM
#9
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cornwall, Pa.
Posts: 1,720
RE: Deer management in PA
germain, You will probably get results on this post if the PGC sees $5.00. Anything to generate more revenue without doing any work is right down their alley. Like the timber sales that are not reported and the other schemes you never hear about. Like the slick move of dropping the doe tag from the archery license. I thought they wanted doe harvested. The increased revenue from license fees dedicated to wildlife concerns that never seem to find the correct account for deposit. And last, the endless BS stories of how hard life is at the PGC. You ever been in their Harrisburg office? This is like a mini NRA. Piss away money from dedicated accounts to buy vehicles, pay increases and retirements for a sub standard employees. Put the ledger on the table and tell me again where the money went. [:@][:'(][>:]
01-02-2005, 08:47 AM
#10
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 1,149
RE: Deer management in PA
sniper,the DCNR uses the excuse of "save our forests" when it comes to deer management when in reality it's to make room for the elk and tourism.It would be interesting to see what excuse the PGC would use to kill all the deer on the SGL'S with an added fee toward habitat improvement.
Yeah they put some food plots in but the ones I saw lack the nutients to grow.They can blame the deer until the cows come home but the bottom line is oaks need sunlight and some space to grow.If the soil is right and they have the sunlight oaks will grow.
The irony of this whole thing is that the original complaints were about the maples taking over the forests.Well deer browse the maples so what's reducing them going to do?Allow alot more maples to grow!
This whole fiasco is a scam straight from the tree huggers and some hunters are actually falling for it.
Yeah they put some food plots in but the ones I saw lack the nutients to grow.They can blame the deer until the cows come home but the bottom line is oaks need sunlight and some space to grow.If the soil is right and they have the sunlight oaks will grow.
The irony of this whole thing is that the original complaints were about the maples taking over the forests.Well deer browse the maples so what's reducing them going to do?Allow alot more maples to grow!
This whole fiasco is a scam straight from the tree huggers and some hunters are actually falling for it.