Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
09-23-2002, 05:47 PM
#31
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NJ USA
Posts: 237
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
My old man was scouting up some new land the state just bought this year. Checking out some good areas with ground cover. On his way out he ran into a mother and son with a hang on and ladder. He asked how they were doing and they said, "Fine, just going out to claim our spot" Typical "This land is MY land, this lands NOT your land" mentality. I wish I would have been there,,,,,,
Duckmastor2
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Duck, you are looking at this all wrong. I would think it's pretty great to see women and children getting involved in hunting. Why not give them some space to enjoy their hunt.
Edited by - NJ_Bowhntr on 09/23/2002 18:48:38
My old man was scouting up some new land the state just bought this year. Checking out some good areas with ground cover. On his way out he ran into a mother and son with a hang on and ladder. He asked how they were doing and they said, "Fine, just going out to claim our spot" Typical "This land is MY land, this lands NOT your land" mentality. I wish I would have been there,,,,,,
Duckmastor2
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Duck, you are looking at this all wrong. I would think it's pretty great to see women and children getting involved in hunting. Why not give them some space to enjoy their hunt.
Edited by - NJ_Bowhntr on 09/23/2002 18:48:38
09-23-2002, 08:54 PM
#32
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wilmington Delaware USA
Posts: 699
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
The fact that he told me it was a mother and son made me excited at first, until I was told what they said. I dont know how old the son was, I'm hoping young. I have this vision of a young excited pre teen getting ready for the bow season opener. I just dont approve of the possible territorial aspect being taught. Like I said, I wish i was there. Not just to voice my opinion, but to hear the 'way' it was said and the attitude. I will get a clarification.
I have tickets for multiple DU Dinners in the upcomming weeks. I plan on shaking hands with as many Fish and Game people as possible and promoting carry in, carry out only stands and blinds. We'll see what happens.
Any day spent huntin, is better than any day spent workin,,
Duckmastor2
Edited by - Duckmastor2 on 09/23/2002 21:56:27
I have tickets for multiple DU Dinners in the upcomming weeks. I plan on shaking hands with as many Fish and Game people as possible and promoting carry in, carry out only stands and blinds. We'll see what happens.
Any day spent huntin, is better than any day spent workin,,
Duckmastor2
Edited by - Duckmastor2 on 09/23/2002 21:56:27
09-24-2002, 02:03 PM
#33
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NJ USA
Posts: 237
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
Thats okay Duck, I'll go right behind you and tell them how much I support the current system. Many of those guy's are old buds of mine anyway.
I really don't understand what your problem is with this. If you want to carry out your stand each time, go right ahead, but trying to force your way of hunting on everyone else is a pretty selfish way to approach it. Right now, hunters have a choice of which method they choose to hunt. No one is telling you that you can't hunt how you prefer, so why do you feel you should be able to dictate how everyone else hunts? Maybe you should spend more time scouting for areas without stands, and less time complaining about where the stands already are.
Just a bit of advice, do with it what you will, but I'll assure you that your enjoyment of the hunting season will skyrocket when you worry less about what others are doing and concentrate more on what you should be doing. Personally, I think it's is advantageous to leave stands in the woods. Not only because you can hunt an area without making a big disturbance setting up, but also because you already know where others are hunting and how to avoid them.
One more thing Duck; I DO think F & W have heard you. It seems that after hearing complaints such as yours, they have added a section on " A Hunters Responsibilities" to the Digest. I guess they worry that there may be a few other hunters out there like you because they felt a need to remind you that.....
"Responsible hunters show consideration for their companions and avoid doing anything that will interfere with another's hunt",
and
"When hunting public lands, responsible hunters show the same respect for other users and their possessions as they show for land owners on private land". These are quotes from page 74 of the hunting edition of the Digest. They are in the context of stands and hunting set-ups on public land. From your earlier post, we find this,...
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Just because they spend some time and money to buy/make a stand and put it up, they have 1st rights to the area. This is not so. Your stand has now become public property for the public to do with as it sees fit.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
AND
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
be willing to except the fact that someone could be sitting in your stand or your stand might not be there at all
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Obviously, F & W consider stands placed on public lands to be the possessions of the hunters who place them there, and a responsible hunter would respect that and not interfere, not behave as your quote suggests.
The choice is yours Duck......are you going to be a responsible hunter, or are you going to continue to be someone who interferes with another hunter's set-up or personal possessions?
Good luck, and remember, hunt for deer, not confrontations.
Edited by - NJ_Bowhntr on 09/24/2002 15:08:51
I really don't understand what your problem is with this. If you want to carry out your stand each time, go right ahead, but trying to force your way of hunting on everyone else is a pretty selfish way to approach it. Right now, hunters have a choice of which method they choose to hunt. No one is telling you that you can't hunt how you prefer, so why do you feel you should be able to dictate how everyone else hunts? Maybe you should spend more time scouting for areas without stands, and less time complaining about where the stands already are.
Just a bit of advice, do with it what you will, but I'll assure you that your enjoyment of the hunting season will skyrocket when you worry less about what others are doing and concentrate more on what you should be doing. Personally, I think it's is advantageous to leave stands in the woods. Not only because you can hunt an area without making a big disturbance setting up, but also because you already know where others are hunting and how to avoid them.
One more thing Duck; I DO think F & W have heard you. It seems that after hearing complaints such as yours, they have added a section on " A Hunters Responsibilities" to the Digest. I guess they worry that there may be a few other hunters out there like you because they felt a need to remind you that.....
"Responsible hunters show consideration for their companions and avoid doing anything that will interfere with another's hunt",
and
"When hunting public lands, responsible hunters show the same respect for other users and their possessions as they show for land owners on private land". These are quotes from page 74 of the hunting edition of the Digest. They are in the context of stands and hunting set-ups on public land. From your earlier post, we find this,...
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Just because they spend some time and money to buy/make a stand and put it up, they have 1st rights to the area. This is not so. Your stand has now become public property for the public to do with as it sees fit.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
AND
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
be willing to except the fact that someone could be sitting in your stand or your stand might not be there at all
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Obviously, F & W consider stands placed on public lands to be the possessions of the hunters who place them there, and a responsible hunter would respect that and not interfere, not behave as your quote suggests.
The choice is yours Duck......are you going to be a responsible hunter, or are you going to continue to be someone who interferes with another hunter's set-up or personal possessions?
Good luck, and remember, hunt for deer, not confrontations.
Edited by - NJ_Bowhntr on 09/24/2002 15:08:51
09-25-2002, 08:06 PM
#35
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wilmington Delaware USA
Posts: 699
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
For confirmation, my father said the kid with the mom was about 16 and did state he was "claiming his spot for saturday" Nice. I hope someone is sitting in his stand opening morning, because if you remember, Paul Tarlowe NJDF&G stated to me "On areas where they are permitted they could, theoretically, be used by whoever got to them first." Then they can get into a fight about it, maybe sling arrows at each other. Wake up boys. Its not worth it. Carry in, Carry out.
If it were up to me, which I know you all are happy it isnt, any stand left on public land more than 1 day would be considered illegal and confiscated by Fish and Game. They could sell them at an auction with all other contraband and put the money into the Fish and Game coffers. Any stands that didnt sell would be chopped up into little pieces.
Have fun opening day!
Any day spent huntin, is better than any day spent workin,,
Duckmastor2
If it were up to me, which I know you all are happy it isnt, any stand left on public land more than 1 day would be considered illegal and confiscated by Fish and Game. They could sell them at an auction with all other contraband and put the money into the Fish and Game coffers. Any stands that didnt sell would be chopped up into little pieces.
Have fun opening day!
Any day spent huntin, is better than any day spent workin,,
Duckmastor2
09-26-2002, 04:54 AM
#36
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NJ USA
Posts: 237
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
For confirmation, my father said the kid with the mom was about 16 and did state he was "claiming his spot for saturday" Nice. I hope someone is sitting in his stand opening morning, because if you remember, Paul Tarlowe NJDF&G stated to me "On areas where they are permitted they could, theoretically, be used by whoever got to them first." Then they can get into a fight about it, maybe sling arrows at each other. Wake up boys. Its not worth it. Carry in, Carry out.
If it were up to me, which I know you all are happy it isnt, any stand left on public land more than 1 day would be considered illegal and confiscated by Fish and Game. They could sell them at an auction with all other contraband and put the money into the Fish and Game coffers. Any stands that didnt sell would be chopped up into little pieces.
Have fun opening day!
Duckmastor2
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Now Duck, don't get your feathers all ruffled <img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_clown.gif border=0 align=middle>. Maybe someone from F & W told you that in theory, someone else could use that stand, but it seems they are taking the official position, by printing it in the Digest, that this is NOT what a RESPONSIBLE hunter would do.
This is the third quote from that section of the Digest...."There are certain do's and don'ts that all hunters must consider with respect to their manners in the field. Remember, in most cases, courtesy and sportsmanship are related to safety". It is clear that you are making their point, especially when you talk about hoping someone is sitting in their stand and they start flinging arrows at each other.
Go to page 74 in the Digest. It specifically addresses this subject, and basically tells you that a responsible and courteous sportsman will respect other hunters' possessions and stand set-ups on public land, and not do anything to interfere with another hunter.
How old are you Duck? Don't take that as a demeaning comment either, I am just curious.
Hunt for deer, not trouble.
Edited by - NJ_Bowhntr on 09/26/2002 05:57:10
For confirmation, my father said the kid with the mom was about 16 and did state he was "claiming his spot for saturday" Nice. I hope someone is sitting in his stand opening morning, because if you remember, Paul Tarlowe NJDF&G stated to me "On areas where they are permitted they could, theoretically, be used by whoever got to them first." Then they can get into a fight about it, maybe sling arrows at each other. Wake up boys. Its not worth it. Carry in, Carry out.
If it were up to me, which I know you all are happy it isnt, any stand left on public land more than 1 day would be considered illegal and confiscated by Fish and Game. They could sell them at an auction with all other contraband and put the money into the Fish and Game coffers. Any stands that didnt sell would be chopped up into little pieces.
Have fun opening day!
Duckmastor2
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Now Duck, don't get your feathers all ruffled <img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_clown.gif border=0 align=middle>. Maybe someone from F & W told you that in theory, someone else could use that stand, but it seems they are taking the official position, by printing it in the Digest, that this is NOT what a RESPONSIBLE hunter would do.
This is the third quote from that section of the Digest...."There are certain do's and don'ts that all hunters must consider with respect to their manners in the field. Remember, in most cases, courtesy and sportsmanship are related to safety". It is clear that you are making their point, especially when you talk about hoping someone is sitting in their stand and they start flinging arrows at each other.
Go to page 74 in the Digest. It specifically addresses this subject, and basically tells you that a responsible and courteous sportsman will respect other hunters' possessions and stand set-ups on public land, and not do anything to interfere with another hunter.
How old are you Duck? Don't take that as a demeaning comment either, I am just curious.
Hunt for deer, not trouble.
Edited by - NJ_Bowhntr on 09/26/2002 05:57:10
09-26-2002, 06:54 AM
#37
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Hamilton Square NJ USA
Posts: 557
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
One thing that's missed here, and could cause a problem for the young sportsmen in question. I know my father warned me about it at a young age, and I certainly experienced it over the years, especially in crowded NJ. Say the poor kid gets to walking in to his stand opening morning, and some guy is set up in a portable 75yds away. He's gonna have to turn around and hunt another spot if he follows the ethics most of us were shown. Does he have one? Does he know this? I assume the mom doesn't hunt, who has shown it to him? I know the other guy will most certainly ruin his morning if he flashes his light at him, and he continues towards the guy, and climbs up. I know myself, not knowing it was a kid, would get down and confront him, at the very least letting the person know how I felt about that practice. On NJ public land, this is quite possible, especially in the close to the road spots that the kid and mother probably picked. Not to mention the possibility of the stand getting stolen, which I doubt they are adequately aware of. Could leave a sour taste in the young man's mouth, no doubt.
I think the right thing to do here is welcome the young man and his mom into the sport, and perhaps offer a little guidance, at least let them know of the possibilities mentioned above. NJ bowhunters aren't the most skilled or courtious, IMO(don't get mad, I'm from NJ myself), and a lot of them wait until the day or so before the season to walk the woods down looking for "fresh sign", and many, I hate to say, would be happy to steal a stand.
All in all, the scenario described has a lot of potential, unfortunately, to put a damper on a kid's opening dday. Maybe if you see the kid again, ask how he did, offer encouragement, and maybe a little advice, if he seems open to it. Not everyone has the knowledge to have a backup stand or two, or to put them way back in where nobody goes, or even knows what level of courtesy is expected amongst hunters. Unfortunately, hanging one stand with the idea of "claiming" a spot has a possibility of the kid taking a lot of abuse opening morning.
"In heaven, even the fish have antlers"
I think the right thing to do here is welcome the young man and his mom into the sport, and perhaps offer a little guidance, at least let them know of the possibilities mentioned above. NJ bowhunters aren't the most skilled or courtious, IMO(don't get mad, I'm from NJ myself), and a lot of them wait until the day or so before the season to walk the woods down looking for "fresh sign", and many, I hate to say, would be happy to steal a stand.
All in all, the scenario described has a lot of potential, unfortunately, to put a damper on a kid's opening dday. Maybe if you see the kid again, ask how he did, offer encouragement, and maybe a little advice, if he seems open to it. Not everyone has the knowledge to have a backup stand or two, or to put them way back in where nobody goes, or even knows what level of courtesy is expected amongst hunters. Unfortunately, hanging one stand with the idea of "claiming" a spot has a possibility of the kid taking a lot of abuse opening morning.
"In heaven, even the fish have antlers"
09-26-2002, 07:59 AM
#38
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NJ USA
Posts: 237
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
That is a good point 6pt., and I think it's exactly why F & W put the section in the digest about being courteous and showing respect for other hunters' set-ups. In your example of 75 yards, I would say that could be an acceptable distance from another stand, depending on the circumstances. In early season where the cover is very thick, 75 yards is a long ways in the woods. I personally think 100 yards minimum is best, but 75 yards away would not cause nearly the trouble that sitting in someone elses stand (like Duck has talked about) would. Your example is also why I hang several stands on public land; so I can move to a back-up spot when someone else inconsiderately, or unknowingly, moves in on me.
The best message here is to steer clear of other hunters' stands, it will make everyones day afield more enjoyable. It's the responsible thing to do as well.
Edited by - NJ_Bowhntr on 09/26/2002 09:00:37
The best message here is to steer clear of other hunters' stands, it will make everyones day afield more enjoyable. It's the responsible thing to do as well.
Edited by - NJ_Bowhntr on 09/26/2002 09:00:37
09-26-2002, 03:02 PM
#39
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wilmington Delaware USA
Posts: 699
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
NJ, I'm 32.
I keep hearing you say I should hunt for deer and not trouble. Voicing my opinion about this issue on this board and to every hunter and Fish and Game official I can is about the extent of the trouble I cause. Even though I own hang on and ladder stands, I don't place them on Public land. I just use climbers and ground hunt. I also don't sit in other people's stands, steal or destroy stands and if someone beats me out to an area I go someplace else or home if the wind is not in my favor. I also don't take to the field unless I've scouted an area and know where I'm going. Nothing more annoying than having someone stumbling around in the field or woods looking for a spot during the season. I think people who hang stands for longer than a day are the ones looking for trouble.
I'm telling you something though, this year once I scout out places and find good spots, I'm hunting there. If someone hangs a stand in that area afterwards, too bad. If they beat me out there, fine, I'll move on, but if not, I'm hunting that spot. If the person who hangs the stand gets there after me and gives me a hard time, I'm staying put, hopping on the cell phone and calling Fish and Game or police, whichever the situation dictates. I'm not being muscled out of a public area again.
I did read the wildlife digest. I saw the States attempt to teach hunters common courtesy. It's well intentioned and might work on new hunters, but do you honestly think people who've been acting like jerks for the past 20 years are going to change after reading a few paragraphs in a magazine? Give me a break. When it comes to stands and blinds, the only thing that will change behavior is a change in the law. Someone cant squat in your stand, steal it, wreck it, or fight with you over it if its not there.
NJ, I will never subscribe to your opinion (as you wont mine) that once someone hangs a stand in an area, others should be 'considerate' and move on. Placing stands on public land in an attempt to monopolize an area is wrong, period. It's legal for you to do, so go right ahead. Just be prepared for people sitting in it. I would never do that, but others will and the have the State on their side.
If you go Saturday good luck or continued luck to you if you've been
hunting zones that opened the 7th.
Any day spent huntin, is better than any day spent workin,,
Duckmastor2
I keep hearing you say I should hunt for deer and not trouble. Voicing my opinion about this issue on this board and to every hunter and Fish and Game official I can is about the extent of the trouble I cause. Even though I own hang on and ladder stands, I don't place them on Public land. I just use climbers and ground hunt. I also don't sit in other people's stands, steal or destroy stands and if someone beats me out to an area I go someplace else or home if the wind is not in my favor. I also don't take to the field unless I've scouted an area and know where I'm going. Nothing more annoying than having someone stumbling around in the field or woods looking for a spot during the season. I think people who hang stands for longer than a day are the ones looking for trouble.
I'm telling you something though, this year once I scout out places and find good spots, I'm hunting there. If someone hangs a stand in that area afterwards, too bad. If they beat me out there, fine, I'll move on, but if not, I'm hunting that spot. If the person who hangs the stand gets there after me and gives me a hard time, I'm staying put, hopping on the cell phone and calling Fish and Game or police, whichever the situation dictates. I'm not being muscled out of a public area again.
I did read the wildlife digest. I saw the States attempt to teach hunters common courtesy. It's well intentioned and might work on new hunters, but do you honestly think people who've been acting like jerks for the past 20 years are going to change after reading a few paragraphs in a magazine? Give me a break. When it comes to stands and blinds, the only thing that will change behavior is a change in the law. Someone cant squat in your stand, steal it, wreck it, or fight with you over it if its not there.
NJ, I will never subscribe to your opinion (as you wont mine) that once someone hangs a stand in an area, others should be 'considerate' and move on. Placing stands on public land in an attempt to monopolize an area is wrong, period. It's legal for you to do, so go right ahead. Just be prepared for people sitting in it. I would never do that, but others will and the have the State on their side.
If you go Saturday good luck or continued luck to you if you've been
hunting zones that opened the 7th.
Any day spent huntin, is better than any day spent workin,,
Duckmastor2
09-26-2002, 05:02 PM
#40
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NJ USA
Posts: 237
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
If you go Saturday good luck or continued luck to you if you've been
hunting zones that opened the 7th.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
I hunt public land in zones 27, 28 & 29, so I will be starting Saturday. Looks like we will have good weather. Shoot straight.