ulysses

you're not from Pa and haven't hunted here in sometime, so I doubt you truely understand. Even the Nay sayers,whiners,etc. as you put it give Alt some credit for AR. And most hunters in the state have no problem with them ,many like myself would like to see strickter AR Regs.
Our gripe is how with misaligned WMU in place the PGC at Alt's reguest has continued to allocate too many doe tags for those with "the brown it's down " mentality in WMUs that are below QDM goals for anterless deer. Also refusing to make WMUs smaller in size so a cut in those allotments can do some good.
True as I've often posted it is the greed of some hunters that must fill tags that pull the trigger not Alt. Those same game hogs try vainly to justify their overkills by saying "well I'm not breaking any law, the PGC issued these tags".
*Until the PGC defines which WMU do not need future HR many hunters will continue to revolt*

deaddeer

Are you agreeeing with me that the herd has been reduced by 40% and disagreeeing with the PGC which says it has steadily increased for the last 6 years?

The awards were given for implementing the plan , not for what the plan produced!!!!

slicendice

I can't understand why in MD you can legally take 30 does a year and it has been that way for a while, and the populations are fine, but in PA, they issue some doe tags and the world is gonna end.

rybohunter

slice,

Because PA has a ton more hunters than MD. There are thousands upon thousands of acres open to public hunting. When you unleash high numbers of hunters onto that land with a couple of doe tags each, you can do some damage. Now whether that damage is as bad as the dooms dayers claim is unknown.

I live and hunt some in a special regs area of PA. I can shoot an unlimited number of does as long as I keep buying tags. Well I only have a couple spots, because access to this land is next to impossible to come by. So even if I hunted every day of the season I could only shoot the limited number of deer that come by me. I'm sure such is the case in MD.

BTBowhunter

I was merely pointing out the inconsistencies in your posts. Dont be a John Kerry. Take a position and stick with it.


But to answer your question, No, IMHO, the herd has been reduced in many areas but not by 40%. It has also increased in some. I qualify that by pointing out that I can only go from personal observation and the same from other hunters.
Neither of us has the resources the PGC has and we all know that their numbers arent perfect either. I would like to see them to further break down their numbers, at least by WMU, for credibility's sake.

slicendice

rybo,

Thanks for the response!! I live in PA, but don't hunt there, and I honestly couldn't understand what all the fuss was about. I still see the same number of deer around here that I used to, so I honestly didn't see what the problem was.

Your answer was clear and to the point and I appreciate that.

Thanks!!

deaddeer

Here is a quote from an article on AR in Miss. and Ark.


"Antler restrictions are not cure-alls for bad genetics or poor food source," says Larry Castle, deer program coordinator for the state of Mississippi. "Mississippi currently has a 4-point restriction statewide. In some areas we have seen substantial improvement, in others none at all. Generally, our concern is that we may be degrading future deer populations by the continued removal of the 'better' [larger-antlered] members of the yearling age-class."

Stephen Demarais, professor of Wildlife Management at Mississippi State University, concurs with Castle's opinion. After intensive monitoring of buck kill on the state's Sunflower WMA, his statistics show a decrease of 19 inches of antlers in the Boone and Crockett scores of 3 1/2-year-old bucks taken on the WMA since the 4-point rule was adopted. This is exactly the effect that some biologists predicted: Over time, the restrictive rule protects smaller-antlered yearlings and allows the harvest of larger-antlered yearlings.

A Mississippi State University graduate student named Bronson Strickland has recently produced (in association with Demarais, Castle and others) a widely read paper titled "Effects of Selective-Harvest Strategies on White-Tailed Deer Antler Size." The study used antler measurements from pen-raised deer to simulate the effects of antler-based selective-harvest strategies on the breeding population for a number of years. Those findings were then compared to antler statistics from bucks harvested on Mississippi's WMAs. The simulations showed that selectively removing a large proportion of the larger-antlered young bucks while leaving a large proportion of the smaller-antlered young bucks can reduce the antler size of bucks, beginning at 4 years of age.

The 3-point rule has now been in use for five years here in Arkansas. Are we on the verge of seeing antler size beginning to decrease?

Catherine Helm is one of the prime forces behind the annual Arkansas Big Buck Classic, one of the nation's largest deer shows. She is directly involved with the event's highly popular statewide big buck contest.

"When the 3-point rule first went into effect we saw an immediate and dramatic increase in antler size of the bucks entered in our contest," Helm stated. "But in the last couple of years that trend has leveled off and maybe even decreased a little bit."

Those comments, by someone who annually sees a majority of the state's largest bucks, certainly seems to correlate with the opinions mentioned above."

Age is the most important factor in antler size followed by genetics and the quality of the food. Since the quakity of the food can not be readily changed, age and genetics are the most important factors.

BigWay

Hey ulysses, I want you to explain something to me on you theory of "simple math". 40 does + 1 buck = lots of fawns. How is that ONE buck supposed to get that done. If a doe is only in heat 24 to 48 hours and the ONE buck will stay with her the entire time she's in heat, that ONE buck will need between 40 and 80 days to breed 40 does. How's that happen when the rut only lasts approx. 3 weeks. Then the does that weren't bred the first time around come into heat 28 days later. and so it goes until all are bred. The later the doe is bred the more trouble the fawns will run into. Besides that ONE buck is going to be in pretty bad shape after all that work. NOT VERY GOOD deer management in my book. Your constant reference to killing button bucks is pathetic. The more you write the harder it is for anyone to take you seriously.

ulysses

s&D I think he is working with too large of WMUs and has not cut doe tags in the WMUs that have accomplished HR even though he's fully aware of it.
Bob: you know darn well I sent it, but just to show you I am a man of my word I'll resend it again.
But from this point on you are a non issue to me, i will not reply to your silly Altism posts.

ulysses

big way the more you write the more everyone knows you need a lesson in estrous cycles, the doe don't all "come in at one time" some come in as early as mid Sept. other as late as Feb....think the bucks don't know that??? then why do you think they shed their velvet in early Sept. and antlers in Jan-Feb.
Kids... pappy should take you down to the barn and have a talk to you!