deaddeer

The answer is quite simple. in those states they pass on virtually 1.5 buck so there is no high grading of that age class and the best 1.5's survive to become dominant 2.5 buck. With AR we are harvesting the best 1.5 bucks,before they ever become 2.5's.

deaddeer

The answer is quite simple. in those states they pass on virtually 1.5 buck so there is no high grading of that age class and the best 1.5's survive to become dominant 2.5 buck. With AR we are harvesting the best 1.5 bucks,before they ever become 2.5's.

Pa Trophy Man

We don't need to protect buck over 6pnts. We need to allow them a chance to mature and they will take care of the rest. If we go back to the old rules where anything with a 3inch spike is legal, we are opening to the door to slaughter the best and the worst of the genes. Give them an extra year to mature, you've given them a chance to display their potential antler wise and a chance to establish their dominance for breeding rights and gain experience helpful to evade hunters. With 15+ deer to my credit, i get absolutely no joy from killing a young buck; they are just as easy to kill as the neighbors cat.I trully believe would should pass on all 1.5yr old bucks, that would help even more than just a point restriction (except in the case of junior hunters; we need to get more kids involved in the sport).

Time(AR)= experience to evade hunters
Time(AR)= Mature deer with bigger headgear
Bigger headgear= better genes, better overall health of the animal
Bigger headgear= dominant over smaller weaker bucks
Bigger headgear= happy trophy hunters
Dominance= passage of the better genes.
Passage of better genes= better health of the herd
Healthier Herd=happy numbers hunter

Your said yourself AR are adding more 2.5+ bucks to the mix, increasing competetion for breeding rights; ensuring that only bigger stronger deer will breed. You don't want weaker deer passing on poor traits ( would you want to people with aids to have a kid??) I certainly don't; a poor example but im tired and can't think [&:] As for the Miss studies, I'm searching and can't find anything about what your saying could you post us some links or direct me to where your reading this??

livbucks

You know I have been saying that and asking that till I am blue faced. I have yet to get an answer. Well, I get one cop out answer;

"because 'ol Gary Alt says we gotta reduce the herd over here or there. And since 'ol Gary Alt is the boss, we gotta follow his allotments to the letter. Even though we can see there is a problem in this here valley, we are gonna whack every last doe and BB because we are greedy and must fill our book of tags from this here valley. And when there is no mo' deer left in this here valley, we can complain and say that 'ol gary Alt was guiding us by our noses in the wrong diareksion. Because we can't use common sense or think for ourselves. We sarcastically tell everyone to whack all the BB too in order to spite 'ol Gary and his plan. "

Kind of like the old union terrorist mentality don't ya think?

ulysses

livbuck last time I looked at a BB while dressing it out I did not see any plumbing works to give birth with.
simple math: 40 does + 1 Buck = lots of fawns
40 bucks + 1 doe = 1 or 2 fawns

why do you think we only keep 1 bull in a herd of dairy cows?????????
If you must kill deer for the meat then kill a buck, I suggest BB cause the meat is best ( I like them when they still have milk on their lips )

PABowhntr

I think he pointed us in the right direction but we still need to have alot of refinement with the current system to make it beneficial for both the deer herd and the hunters that pursue them.

BigWay

You have to stop with the dairy cow reference because you have no idea what your talking about. I have lived on a dairy farm my whole life and you keep trying to make comparisons that just don't make sense. For one thing 90% of the breeding done on a dairy farm is through artificial insemination. The semen used is from companys who have the MOST SUPERIOR GENETIC bulls in the world. The bull that runs around on the dairy farm breeding heifers is no slouch either. He's the best bull that the farmer has access to. His purpose is to breed heifers that have never calved before after that its all artificial insemination the rest of that cows life. Your theory of 1 bull to 40 cows is simple to explain. If 2 bulls were in the barnyard they would KILL each other for the RIGHT to breed, trust me I've seen it. For your arguements on deer management you would be better served using a different reference. You can fool some of the people some of the time but not all the people all the time.

ulysses

I agree!

deaddeer

The exact opposite would occur. Hunters would return to taking the first legal buck they see whether it was a spike or an 8 pt. since 80% of the PS buck population would be 1.5 buck, 1.5 buck would make up 80% of the harvest. But, more 2.5 buck would survive because hunters took the first buck to come along. The harvest rate for 2.5 buck jumped from 75% pre-AR to 85% with AR.

Studies based on DNA have shon that even in a herd where 40% of the PS buck were 3.5 buck, the 1.5 buck still did 10% of the breeding. Futhermore, AR protects the inferior 2.5 buck that aren't AR legal so they will become dominant 3.5 breers even if they have a scrub rack. Antler size does not determine dominance, age and body size does.

rybohunter

There is no way to tell what a buck at 1.5 of age will turn out to be. An early born 8 pt 1.5 could be passed up by a late born 1.5 forky, by the time they get to be 2.5/3.5 yrs of age.