Pa Trophy Man

I agree, the herd has been knocked down pretty far. But what is repealing the AR going to do? Is going to make more deer legal to kill?? Whats the reasoning beyond that? Oh, nevermind me thinking that if we have to few deer, we should decrease doe tags and PROTECT THE BREEDER BUCKS OF TOMMORROW.

Buck Magnet

PA Trophy Man couldn't have said it better. You want more deer, then why would you want the AR's removed? That would allow more bucks to be killed and that would lower the over-all population.

I would say that the best move would be to keep the antler restrictions, rework the WMU's, and lower the doe tags in the areas that need it while pushing for hunters to hunt the over-populated areas!

livbucks

When I say that he will not get the full credit of his successes, I refer to the fact that when things come around fully, the new guy in charge will get the nod from the few that bash Alt on a constant basis. they will never give him his due as they have a hard one for him and that will never change. When all is made right they will say that the now guy in charge was their saving grace, and never see things for what they really are. A constantly evolving program that was bravely instituted by the one guy with a big enough set to get the ball rolling. To get something accomplished in our real world, you have to grease a few palms, give in order to get. that is the way it goes. There may be a price up front to pay to get things moving in the right direction. I think that the price can easily be amortized over time and be well worth it. Some may be paying a little more up front right now, and I sympathize a bit. But the one thing I can't get past is just who is buying all those tags and shooting more than should be taken in those troubled areas? That is a simple question with an obvious answer. To those folks all I can say is the solution lies within their own actions. Blame allocations all you want, but it is YOU who is pulling the trigger. The special interests are playing your own greed against you. Gary Alt has little to do with that. Maybe his mistake was thinking that hunters would know better and not fall into that scheme. That the price would be promised but that hunters in those areas would withold some of the payment. Maybe his big mistake was underestimating the level of greed that exists in some hunters minds. He possibly held some faith and that he was sadly mistaken. The one tradition he counted on, that hunters always looked out for the resource and left some for future seed, was the one tradition that was left to wither.

boozer

well for you guys in favor of Alts so call accomplishments, you either hunt private land where you could always control the herds in your area, and still have plenty of deer running around, that noone else dare hunt, or you thought Hitler was a great man tooo.

deaddeer

In a stable herd , AR will always produce fewer PS deer and a lower sustainable harvest than a non-AR herd . In a herd of 90 deer ,with a 1:2 B/D ratio there would be 60 doe and 30 buck. In an equivalent herd with a B/D ratio of 1:1 there would be 45 buck and 45 doe. The herd with 15 fewer doe would prouce 15 fewer fawns . Therefore the herd with a B/D ratio of 1:2 produces a PS herd of 150 deer and the AR herd with more buck produces 135 PS deer. Also the more buck that are saved by AR ,the more buck are lost to non-hunting mortality ,which also reduces the number of legal buck available to be harvested.

deaddeer

Is that why he issued 1M anterless and DMAP tags after the herd had been reduced by 40%?

ulysses

[quote]ORIGINAL: livbucks

Blame allocations all you want, but it is YOU who is pulling the trigger. The special interests are playing your own greed against you. Gary Alt has little to do with that. Maybe his mistake was thinking that hunters would know better and not fall into that scheme. That the price would be promised but that hunters in those areas would withold some of the payment. Maybe his big mistake was underestimating the level of greed that exists in some hunters minds. He possibly held some faith and that he was sadly mistaken.

Well said GREED played a big part of the doe killing, GREED for horn,GREED to fill as many doe tags as you could!! GREED GREED GREED

Though Alt knew all too well about GREED, IMHO he even planned on it hoping hunters would not think about what they were doing till it was too late for some WMUs
I also don't doubt for a second that Alt had his hands greased by the Auduobon Soc. and the timber concerns to satify his GREED

silentassassin

I just wanted to point out that this strategy isn't new nor is it radical. Several other states in the country are doing this and have been for several years. As a matter of fact, we started doing it in Arkansas in 97 (I think). Mississippi has also been doing it for several years and Missouri also does it. I am sure there are many other examples around the country.

Buck Magnet

boozer, I am not sure who made you the king of deer hunting ethics, but your attacks on private land hunters are ridiculous! Seems as though it is based more on jealousy! Yes, there are people in PA who have large chunks of private land that they can set-up management plans on, but to say that all private land hunters have it this way is ridiculous. Most guys who hunt private land around here are hunting with others that they don't even know. The big areas to hunt around here are usually large farms and the farmers allow all hunters access on their property! Then your little part about Hitler has to be the most ridiculous thing I have read. I think that my 5 year old nephew has more intelligence than that!

deadeer,
It took time for the deer herd in certain areas to get low, and it needs to take time to be fixed. Spending 5 years lowering the deer herd in these areas, then drastically increasing it in one year could have bad results! Also, you mentioned that AR will leave more mature bucks that will be killed to non-hunting mortality, but this is the same thing for does also. Bucks aren't the only deer getting hit on the roads!

ulysses

I appologise to livbucks for the added statements to his /her quote, mine began at Well said GREED.....
it was a typo on my part and only the begining of the post was his quote. Ulysses