ulysses

quickie; I've hunted the same farm since I was 10 yrs old, that's 59 1/2 yrs now. Know what? I've killed a rack buck on here every year, including this year. That's 57 1/2 yrs BEFORE AR!
that river you wish to see cried may well come true as the landowners get fed up with low deer numbers caused by too many hunters that migrated onto our land. because ALT allowed the State Forests and Gamelands to be over shot, and now have begun to post against tresspass .
My farm has been in my family for 200 yrs it never has been posted, we ALWAYS welcomed hunters. NOT ANYMORE, why? Like I said the PGC has allowed state land to be over killed now those hunters want to find what deer are left.
Alt's HR have done more to harm hunters up here in 3A than help. Just in the area I live in there is well over 3,000 posted against deer hunting now then EVER BEFORE.
so get that raft ready as other landowners thruout the state keep doing the same you'll get you cried river.
Certainly the limited amount of public land cannot support all the back tag buyers can it?

Pa Trophy Man

So your saying a more mature deer is just as easy to kill as 1.5yr old spike?? I don't know about everyone else, but the older the buck the more spooky they become at least in my experience. A lot of what your saying really sounds tied to the herd reduction. Obviously there is still going to be a drop in buck harvests when they are killing so many doe because there are going to less buck fawns. Allocate the doe tags better and keep the AR, and Pa will become a great place to hunt deer with high numbers of them and bigger racks.

quiksilver

Ulysses, I think I've figured you out. You're just mad because you saw more hunters than normal on your ground this year. You think that by cutting back the doe tags, that'll take the pinch off of the game lands and take the competition out of your neighborhood.

So what? maybe a couple guys wandered onto your ground and got a doe. Whoopitydoodah.

Maybe you remember seeing twice as many deer in a day, and you think changing the tide of deer management will return your hunting back to the glory days. Well, I hate to be blunt, but you're (if my math is right) about 70 years old. Maybe the old eyes and ears aren't as good as they used to be. Maybe you don't have the hop in your giddyup that you used to... Maybe that's why it's gotten a little harder, not because Gary Alt was out to get ol' Ulysses

Prepare your floatation devices, men.

deaddeer

No I did not say that ,but the PGC data shows that the harvest rate for 2.5 buck(85%) in 2003, was higer than the harvest rate for 1.5 buck( 80%) prior to AR.

The PGC said our herd was increasing in 2003 ,yet the buck harvest was down 30% from the pre-AR harvest of 2001. Now, imagine how low the buck harvest will be if we reduce our herd by 50% and add to the negative impact of AR.

ulysses

my giddyup is just fine...
Quickie what you seem to have not read in my post was MY FARM HAS ALWAYS been unposted back 4 generations of sod busters here.
That couple of wandering doe hunters you posted about is more like 50-75 and I still didn't post, then 3 yrs ago the increase started not just on my farm but the others complained in the area as well in 2003 I counted 81 trucks/cars parked in my fields and along the roads of my farm. Most guys had 2 doe tags in their lisc. holder...that my friend is a problem.
a problem created by his majesty Alt and the Pgc.
So now I post and those guys went onto already crowded gamelands or trespassed onto other private land, so no doubt gave up hunting cause they couldn't find a place to go that wasn't shot out or overcrowded or both.......who's the looser here at the hands of Alt/PGC???? not me. wonder how many extra hunters will be in your WMU on your "hot spot' due to private land getting posted this year????? think about it!!!!!

Deer902

So with AR we saved say 90% of the 1.5 yr old buck and 15% of the 2.5 yr old buck. Where as before AR we were killing 80% of the 1.5 yr old buck.

Looks like a winner to me.
Harvest the 2.5 yr old and save the young 1.5 yr old for next season.
I don't see the problem.

Ulysses, it has been nice talking to you, but I'm guessing you just crossed that thin line you were already on.

quiksilver

So I was exactly right. Ulysses, you are angry because your ground is being pressured more than before. Now that you have admitted it, I feel obliged to tell you that I find it noble that for the past 55 years, you've let others hunt on your property.

81 vehicles is a lot of hunters, and I now understand why you feel the way you do. That, however, doesn't justify scrapping the whole system.

902 - I'll take the Ulysses' personal retort, as I DID question his hearing, eyesight and physical condition.

All said, however, my position as noted above still stands.

ulysses

when did I ever say I was interested in any WMU other than 3A an possibly 3D cause I own land in both? I've said from the very start that HR not AR forced me and my neighbors to post our lands because of increased hunter pressure on our land from migating gamelands hunters whom were disgusted by not seeing deer there anymore..go back and read my numerous post stateing just that. If Alt was truely interested in herd management and not appeasing the timber nd Audubon he would slash doe tags in 3A.that's what I've ALWAYS said an will keep saying

BTW I edited ask your wife, ....hey it's Christmas even I'm not a big PR today!

Pa Trophy Man

Im not arguing HR, im against it just as much as the next guy. However, it seems to be that the majority of hunters aren't experiencing negative effects from AR. I can attest to seeing more and bigger bucks than in the past, like Buck Magnet says my taxidermist is stocked up with a ton of buck in the 120-140'' range. He told me its been doing wonders for his buisness. Showing up in locals newspapers are picture after picture of big buck, certainly there were always some before the AR but it seems to be an unsual condience that there are so many since they started?? Every ranch or preserve that is mananged for big bucks, operates on a self-imposed AR with some sort of cull programn. Until we make a cull programn possible...ARs are the next best thing. No cure all for poor genes or bad food but a good step in the right direction.

BTBowhunter

81 cars on one 600 acre farm?

Lets think about this guys. Who here that hunts anywhere in the big woods counties of PA thinks there's more pressure now and more hunters out than there used to be say 10-15 years ago?

I'll admit I don't hunt where Ulysses claims to own a farm but 902 does.
902, are there that many hunters up there?

Hunter numbers and pressure are way down in the ANF areas, and that started long before HR or AR