Sniper151

Just ignore deaddeer his screen name says it all. Dr. Alt did a fantastic job. I hope we get another biologist not another politician. He did an outstanding job with the bear and got the ball rolling for proper deer herd management.

deaddeer

Alt was appointed with the sole purpose of getting hunters to reduce the herd. After 5 years the PGC claims the herd has increase steadily since 1989 , so his plan is a miserable failure ,at least according to thre PGC.

He implemented AR to get hunters to harvest more doe and said AR would double the number of 8 + pt. buck. instaed it only increased the harvest of 8+ pt buck by 4+ K ,so AR was allso a failure ,especially when it reduced the buck harvest by 30%.

Now what can you offer to refute those facts?

ulysses

2 nice bucks for sure the another average, but even though I support AR I think you must admit nothing that wasn't available every year as long back as I remember.
I hope now that Alt is history we go to some true AR like:
1. all hunters must pass on spikes an Ys ( if you're serious about growing older bucks then stop any younger antlered deer from being killed. If a kid can't be happy with a doe or button buck the they are starting in the wrong sport)
2. all buck tags are put on a lottery draw by WMU ( this is exactly how every other state that has quality buck hunting does it. you get lucky enough to be drawn you hunt a buck, elsewise it is doe for you that year)
3. put a buck tag if you're drawn on any male deer ( someone kills a button buck that drew a buck tag sorry pal that's your buck)
4. issue a doe tag with each back tag ( place restriction as to which WMU they may be used in,i.e. if a WMU has lower deer density than need be then close the entire WMU against doe hunting till it rebounds)

I wonder just how many horn hunters, wannabe "trophy hunters" would support putting buck tags on a draw? Not many I'm certain.

Buck Magnet

ulysses,

You want to see more deer correct? How would putting doe tags on the standard hunting liscence do this? Last time I heard, there was something like 1.2 million hunters in Pennsylvania, so you want to give out 1.2 million doe tags? Just doesn't add up to me! You can't stop having doe tags on the regular hunting liscence as this wouldn't be fair!

deaddeer

If a state limits the number of buck tags there is no need for AR. The buck harvest will be limited by the number of tags and it would be better if more hunters harvested the small inferior bucks and allowed the superior bucks to live and breed another year. that is why many western states dropped AR and limited uck tags instead.

Buck Magnet

Okay....... let me get this straight! I heard complaints about a low buck harvest, now I am hearing complaints that we need the buck harvest to be lower. I heard that we had too many doe killed and now I hear that we need doe tags on the back of the regular hunting liscence. I hear that we need to kill the small/inferior bucks, then I hear we should kill more button bucks, and then I hear we need to shoot only old mature bucks... keeps going in circles and circles never making much sense!

deaddeer

If you get some perverse pleasure out of taking things out of context ,nothing will ever make sense.


For example, can you explain why if the goal is to produce bigger buck, why would it be a good idea to harvest the best buck in each age class that expressed superior genetics for growing big racks,while protecting bucks that have shown less potential for growing big racks. Would the breeder of any other species manage their breders in this manner?

ilbback

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Great Job Dr. Alt!!! Enjoy your retirement you have truly earned it after the last 3 years, kill some slammers!!! and thanks for gettin PA into the 20th century in regards to deer management!!

Buck Magnet

deaddeer,
You are assuming that all of the bucks killed this year are super genetic 1.5 year olds. You are also assuming that all the bucks saved by AR's are inferior racked bucks. I saw one buck this year that wasn't legal for its area and was a old, mature, inferior buck. I am talking about a 6 point (no brow tines), that was between 18"-20" wide outside, with great mass and great tine length! A heck of a nice looking rack but definetly not as many points as he should have! That is one buck out of the large amount of bucks I saw this year! I also saw a great 2.5 year old 10 point get passed by another "old-timer" because this guy had saw a bigger buck on that property in the fall! AR's aren't perfect, but they are much better than having 85% of the buck harvest being 1.5 year olds that havn't had time to mature and show their true potential. A cull system is impossible unless done on a large piece of private property or a hunting ranch where the people who hunt the property dictate what deer get shot. The next best thing is AR's which are the only sensible option for statewide management!

As for AR's not working.... well, the proof is in the pudding. When I took my buck to the taxidermists, I saw dozens upon dozens of racks from this area with the average rack being in the 130" range and several in the 160" - 170" range! So far, I know of 5 different bucks shot in this county alone that had over 20 scoreable points! Also, I have never seen so many bucks in our local newspaper and of these bucks, the majority were old mature big antlered bucks! Just because someone and his buddies havn't shot or saw a huge buck this year doesn't mean that they aren't out there, and likewise, just because one guys sees tons of big bucks, doesn't mean that they are everywhere. You gotta look on a bigger scale, and around here, that scale is showing a huge improvement in body weight and antler size on the bucks harvested! I will take that over one or two guys saying that they are only seeing spikes and forkhorns.

deaddeer

I agree. I don't know one other deer manager that could reduce the buck harvest by 30% in just two years while the herd was increasing. Alt was truly one of a kind. Thank the Lord for small favors.