Don't expect better buck hunting in PA
11-12-2004, 09:56 AM
#31
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,236
RE: Don't expect better buck hunting in PA
ORIGINAL: deaddeer
No, I did not skirt the issue. That post was in response to livbucks post, not yours. Now here is the answer you were looking for.
The first thing I would do is revise the OWDD goals so they reflect the true carrying capacity of all the habitat used by the deer, instead of the current standard which is based on the number of deer that will allow adequate regeneration of commercially valable timber and ignores all habitat but forested habitat. MI manages their herd with a goal of 19 DPSM and in Wisc. it is even higher, while in PA te goal is 12 DPSM and the areas with the worst habitat have the highest goals and the areas with best habitat has the lowest goals.
The next thing I would do is suspend AR until the new OWDD goals are reached . Implementing AR while trying to reduce the herd by 50% insures that AR will not be successful ,at least as perceived by the hunters. As yet the PGC says we have had zero herd reduction ,but the buck harvest has declined by 30%. Now, if we begin reducing the herd by 5% /yr. as per the original plan , the buck harvest will continue to decline and we will have fewer 2.5+ buck than we did in 2002.
Finally, instead of exaggerating the problem and trying to tell hunters we have a crisis across the entire state , I would be more honest and give hunters credit for reducing the herd in 2 G , and acknowledge that herd reduction in many areas is controled by limited hunter access rather than the hunters reluctance to control the herd. I would then have the PGC launch a public relations campaign to inform the general public that hunters will not be able to control the herd in their area unless the land owners provide access to their properties. They could empsize the spread of Lyme decrease , the need to reduce road kills, crop damage and residential property damage as reasons to reduce the herd and sell the plan to increase access. They coud also emphasize giving archers more access where the use of firearms would not be appropriate.
No, I did not skirt the issue. That post was in response to livbucks post, not yours. Now here is the answer you were looking for.
The first thing I would do is revise the OWDD goals so they reflect the true carrying capacity of all the habitat used by the deer, instead of the current standard which is based on the number of deer that will allow adequate regeneration of commercially valable timber and ignores all habitat but forested habitat. MI manages their herd with a goal of 19 DPSM and in Wisc. it is even higher, while in PA te goal is 12 DPSM and the areas with the worst habitat have the highest goals and the areas with best habitat has the lowest goals.
The next thing I would do is suspend AR until the new OWDD goals are reached . Implementing AR while trying to reduce the herd by 50% insures that AR will not be successful ,at least as perceived by the hunters. As yet the PGC says we have had zero herd reduction ,but the buck harvest has declined by 30%. Now, if we begin reducing the herd by 5% /yr. as per the original plan , the buck harvest will continue to decline and we will have fewer 2.5+ buck than we did in 2002.
Finally, instead of exaggerating the problem and trying to tell hunters we have a crisis across the entire state , I would be more honest and give hunters credit for reducing the herd in 2 G , and acknowledge that herd reduction in many areas is controled by limited hunter access rather than the hunters reluctance to control the herd. I would then have the PGC launch a public relations campaign to inform the general public that hunters will not be able to control the herd in their area unless the land owners provide access to their properties. They could empsize the spread of Lyme decrease , the need to reduce road kills, crop damage and residential property damage as reasons to reduce the herd and sell the plan to increase access. They coud also emphasize giving archers more access where the use of firearms would not be appropriate.
Did you really write that DD?
Those are some real solutions. I did a double take!
11-12-2004, 10:51 AM
#34
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Howard PA USA
Posts: 2,221
RE: Don't expect better buck hunting in PA
I commend you with some of your solutions Deaddeer. Like others have said I have always heard you saying what is wrong with deer management in PA but never any solutions, until I pushed you for them. Sorry for that skirting the issue comment, I realized that you weren't talking to me after I wrote it.
As for your post I agree that maybe the PGC should have waited on the Antler restrictions. I think maybe they are trying to tackle all of the problems at once, instead of one piece at a time. But I think this stems from trying to keep everyone happy in PA, which we all know is next to impossible. But I do think antler restrictions work and are necessaryin PA, maybe just not right now
As for making more private land accessible to more hunters, my hunting buddy and I have talked to Dr. Alt personally about this and there is more to it than just a public relations blitz. Specifically we talked to him about some sort of program for crop damaged farms, besides Dmap. But there are some major legislative hurdles to overcome there. But I do agree a public relations blitz is a step in the right direction but it needs to be taken much farther with maybe some incentives for landowners for letting hunters on their land. The PGC is doing this a little bit right now but IMHO not enough. Us hunters need to show these landowners that the majority of us are nice law abiding citizens and will respect their property, yes that is an uphill battle with more and more property being posted every day but it can happen. There are alot of hunters in PA who really care about the animals they hunt, working together we can open up some of this land to us.
Well I commend you again Deaddeer. you have some good ideas. You have gained some respect from me for that post.
As for your post I agree that maybe the PGC should have waited on the Antler restrictions. I think maybe they are trying to tackle all of the problems at once, instead of one piece at a time. But I think this stems from trying to keep everyone happy in PA, which we all know is next to impossible. But I do think antler restrictions work and are necessaryin PA, maybe just not right now
As for making more private land accessible to more hunters, my hunting buddy and I have talked to Dr. Alt personally about this and there is more to it than just a public relations blitz. Specifically we talked to him about some sort of program for crop damaged farms, besides Dmap. But there are some major legislative hurdles to overcome there. But I do agree a public relations blitz is a step in the right direction but it needs to be taken much farther with maybe some incentives for landowners for letting hunters on their land. The PGC is doing this a little bit right now but IMHO not enough. Us hunters need to show these landowners that the majority of us are nice law abiding citizens and will respect their property, yes that is an uphill battle with more and more property being posted every day but it can happen. There are alot of hunters in PA who really care about the animals they hunt, working together we can open up some of this land to us.
Well I commend you again Deaddeer. you have some good ideas. You have gained some respect from me for that post.
11-12-2004, 01:03 PM
#37
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 491
RE: Don't expect better buck hunting in PA
But I think this stems from trying to keep everyone happy in PA, which we all know is next to impossible. But I do think antler restrictions work and are necessaryin PA, maybe just not right now
Antler restrictions work to the extent that the do allow more 1.5 buck to survive , but there has never been a study that showed more older buck were required to have a healthy herd. In fact, 50 years of harvesting 80% of our 1.5 bucks has produced no documented negative effects on our herd. After just one year of AR the PGC was bragging about the big buck our herd was producing. AR made the rack hunters happy,but let the average Joe less than pleased and produced lower buck harvests and created a split in the hunting community,while accomplishing little.
Us hunters need to show these landowners that the majority of us are nice law abiding citizens and will respect their property, yes that is an uphill battle with more and more property being posted every day but it can happen. There are alot of hunters in PA who really care about the animals they hunt, working together we can open up some of this land to us.
Thanks for acknowledging that my suggestions have some merit . I post here not to bash Alt and the PGC ,but to provide the other side of the issues which you don't get in most articles by our outdoor writers who reguritat what Alt tells them without asking the hard questions.
