PA- Who has shot BB and will you in the future?
10-18-2004, 01:42 PM
#41
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: PA- Who has shot BB and will you in the future?
According to you, by harvesting BB ,to reduce the herd, I am reducing my chances to harvest a mature buck and then you turn around and accuse me of being selfish. Maybe you should look in the mirror if you want to see someone who is selfish and places more importance of producing more buck than on herd reduction,even though you give herd reduction plenty of lip service.
Once again, you ignore the science thats not convenient to your point of view. The buck dispersal studies show that it is unlikeky that a BB passed on will remain in the same area. You are much more likely reducing your fellow hunters (down the road) chances than your own for harveting those babies after they grow up.
As for you accusing me of mere lip service when it comes to herd reduction, I have only killed 3 Pa bucks in the last 10 years. I have killed well over 50 antlerless deer in that time and only 2 were BB's. One of those was already wounded. (most in an SRA area, all legal, tagged and reported) In that time I also have passed immature but legal bucks every year before and after AR. I have passed many BB's and probably a lot more does when I couldnt be sure.
You ought to get your facts before you spout off
10-18-2004, 05:39 PM
#42
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 491
RE: PA- Who has shot BB and will you in the future?
Once again, you ignore the science thats not convenient to your point of view. The buck dispersal studies show that it is unlikeky that a BB passed on will remain in the same area. You are much more likely reducing your fellow hunters (down the road) chances than your own for harveting those babies after they grow up.
As for you accusing me of mere lip service when it comes to herd reduction, I have only killed 3 Pa bucks in the last 10 years. I have killed well over 50 antlerless deer in that time and only 2 were BB's.
10-18-2004, 05:52 PM
#43
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 7,208
RE: PA- Who has shot BB and will you in the future?
DD
BTB is in programs that hunt in suburban areas where it is HIGHLY encouraged to shoot as many deer as you can all the time. SRA's have had unlimited doe tag situations for a long time. There has always been a push to shoot that many deer in these areas.
BTB is in programs that hunt in suburban areas where it is HIGHLY encouraged to shoot as many deer as you can all the time. SRA's have had unlimited doe tag situations for a long time. There has always been a push to shoot that many deer in these areas.
10-18-2004, 07:34 PM
#44
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 491
RE: PA- Who has shot BB and will you in the future?
That may be true, but there aren't many hunters that would enjoy killing 50 doe and only 3 buck in 10 years. I believe in HR ,but I would never kill 5 doe / year, 10 years in a row because I can't use that many deer and i don't enjoy killing that much.
10-18-2004, 09:50 PM
#45
Join Date: May 2004
Location:
Posts: 255
RE: PA- Who has shot BB and will you in the future?
Comparing SRA hunting to the rest of pa is not a great comparison.
To get the proper herd reductions that we want, you have to be aggressive in antlerless take. And you will take BB with that increased pressure on does.
By the way did you notice in the PGC hunting digest that it says: "That distinction (that they are male), according to many hunters, entitles them to special consideration".
The point is that the biologists do not say there is any compelling reason to protect BB, they put the ownership back on hunters for that type of thinking.
Biologists know the AR is what protects the proper number of bucks, not wishfull thinking.
To get the proper herd reductions that we want, you have to be aggressive in antlerless take. And you will take BB with that increased pressure on does.
By the way did you notice in the PGC hunting digest that it says: "That distinction (that they are male), according to many hunters, entitles them to special consideration".
The point is that the biologists do not say there is any compelling reason to protect BB, they put the ownership back on hunters for that type of thinking.
Biologists know the AR is what protects the proper number of bucks, not wishfull thinking.
10-19-2004, 06:45 AM
#46
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,236
RE: PA- Who has shot BB and will you in the future?
You say you don't have to point out my mistakes and the reason is you can't. There are lots of folks that would love to prove me wong ,but they can't because I use PGC stats, not personal opinions as you do
DD
You get an A+ for reciting stats.
You get an F- for using the scientific method.
Although the 2003 AL harvest was down from 2002, The AL harvest for 2002 was an absolute all time high record. If you take a ten year average of the AL harvest, you get an AL average of 278,678. The 2003 AL harvest was still above average at 322,620. I think it is negligent to state that there is something wrong with this normal fluctuation first off, and then attribute some kind of negative effect in relation to the BB harvest secondly. BTB was right in the statement that you use the stats to make your point of the day, while neglecting any real scientific study of the statistics as a whole.
I could make any point I would want to if I only used one or two years stats as a model. Look at the 1991 Buck harvest of 149,598. We didn't have AR then and, according to your method, 50,000 hunters went WITHOUT their prized forkie that year..
Oh my God, I bet they were pi$$ed!
You get an A+ for reciting stats.
You get an F- for using the scientific method.
Although the 2003 AL harvest was down from 2002, The AL harvest for 2002 was an absolute all time high record. If you take a ten year average of the AL harvest, you get an AL average of 278,678. The 2003 AL harvest was still above average at 322,620. I think it is negligent to state that there is something wrong with this normal fluctuation first off, and then attribute some kind of negative effect in relation to the BB harvest secondly. BTB was right in the statement that you use the stats to make your point of the day, while neglecting any real scientific study of the statistics as a whole.
I could make any point I would want to if I only used one or two years stats as a model. Look at the 1991 Buck harvest of 149,598. We didn't have AR then and, according to your method, 50,000 hunters went WITHOUT their prized forkie that year..
Oh my God, I bet they were pi$$ed!
10-19-2004, 07:26 AM
#47
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 491
RE: PA- Who has shot BB and will you in the future?
ORIGINAL: livbucks
You say you don't have to point out my mistakes and the reason is you can't. There are lots of folks that would love to prove me wong ,but they can't because I use PGC stats, not personal opinions as you do
DD
I could make any point I would want to if I only used one or two years stats as a model. Look at the 1991 Buck harvest of 149,598. We didn't have AR then and, according to your method, 50,000 hunters went WITHOUT their prized forkie that year..
Oh my God, I bet they were pi$$ed!
I could make any point I would want to if I only used one or two years stats as a model. Look at the 1991 Buck harvest of 149,598. We didn't have AR then and, according to your method, 50,000 hunters went WITHOUT their prized forkie that year..
Oh my God, I bet they were pi$$ed!
That point is not valid since the highest buck harvest prior to 1991 harvest was the harvest of 170,101 buck in 1990. That is a decrease of 20.5K ,not the 50K you erroneously claimed.
Furthermore ,you should note that the decrease in the buck harvest was due to the record high anterless harvest of 245k in 1990 when a record 55 K BB were harvested.
10-19-2004, 08:27 AM
#48
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,236
RE: PA- Who has shot BB and will you in the future?
That point is not valid since the highest buck harvest prior to 1991 harvest was the harvest of 170,101 buck in 1990. That is a decrease of 20.5K ,not the 50K you erroneously claimed.
Furthermore ,you should note that the decrease in the buck harvest was due to the record high anterless harvest of 245k in 1990 when a record 55 K BB were harvested.
10-19-2004, 09:18 AM
#49
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: PA- Who has shot BB and will you in the future?
You have the right to remain silent. Don't go hurting yourself now!
Well said Livbucks!!!!
That may be true, but there aren't many hunters that would enjoy killing 50 doe and only 3 buck in 10 years. I believe in HR ,but I would never kill 5 doe / year, 10 years in a row because I can't use that many deer and i don't enjoy killing that much.
His way of digesting and regurgitating the "facts"
His way of harvesting AL deer (83% BB's)
Now, perhaps he can tell us exactly how many deer we're supposed to "enjoy" killing and hpw many deer "that I can use" is an acceptable number.
And of course we must all accept his way of managing the deer.... but wait, in all his posts, has anyone seen a positive reccomendation for a deer manangement plan acceptable to DD? All I've seen is criticism with no solutions other than "put it back the way it was"
10-19-2004, 11:51 AM
#50
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 491
RE: PA- Who has shot BB and will you in the future?
The falling buck harvest that you complain about and your wishes to appease the masses with forkies for everyone, is based on a spike in success ratios and not a historically expected result by anyone. Seems like that one year spoiled alot of guys, huh? I really didn't expect you to get it though.