BTBowhunter

Personally, I have done my best to avoid shooting them for several years.

I have a 12 year old and would probably encourage him to shoot any legal deer his first year.

My 15 year old passes them now.

I feel it's a personal choice for each hunter and while I would try to encourage all hunters to be selective, I also wouldn't criticize a fellow hunter for taking any legal deer.

The exeception to that would be those who make it a point complain about BB kills and then kill them anyway.

cardeer

I did ,it was my first 45 years ago. Before Alt and all this discussion I decided myself if I shoot buttons on my farm ,I'm just hurting my chance for a antlered buck,Made sense to me,Never will again.

chickory

Another person who is upset by Bt's wit and intelligence? Go figure!

First of all you should be proud of the record of your little group of 30 hunters. They have done what no state with statewide AR/HR has ever done. Harvest one BB out of 30. Deer and DEER Hunter would write a story of your little group!

But we do have states who use AR/HR like ARkansas since 1998 and are in thier sixth year of trying to squelch BB harvest. Lets see how they do ? Shall we?

espn http://espn.go.com/outdoors/hunting/...cast04_AR.html

Arkansas makes hunters use a buck tag for BB. Yet lets see here......how
many do they take.... 66,204 adult buck - 9756 Button buck - 32175 doe in 2003

We don't have BT here to do the math for us, so what does that work out to Bucky?

The PGC says 20-24% will be BB, we go to Arkansas and even without a real push on doe harvests in 2003 took more than that!!!!!

So if we compare that to PA, then Pa will have a bigger problem because we are wailing a lot more doe than the Arkies are. WE took 142,270B and 322,620 AL deer. Lordy! We are taking 2 doe for every one buck and ark is flipped the other way around.

So what was 20% of Pa's 322,620 harvest ? 64,454 bucks taken as AL

So as you can see we will see the effects of this small facet of deer managment even clearer than states that are not so zealous in thier doe harvests.

Did Beenthere tell you that too? Is that why you are upset with numbers?

Remember, if you can't represent it with numbers, it ain't science.


So in summary, a lot of individual hunters claim amazing powers to never harvest BB. But the reports from deer biologists show a different story. In very small groups on controlled lands a small group of hunters might get lucky and have a low %, but statewide the laws of averages catches up to ya and you end up with harvesting a bunch of BB. If you don't then the opposite happens and you are not harvesting doe in large enough numbers to reduce the herd size. Which is our goal in PA.!

In case you don't like looking to other states because you are backwards and afraid to, then here is a link for QDMA. A trusted Alty source for wishfull thinking.

The percentage of button bucks in the antlerless harvest remained similar (22 percent in 2002 vs. 23 percent in 2001).
http://www.qdma.com/articles/details.asp?id=41


So although you may sit in your stand and cross your fingers that good things will happen by magic, the truth is that BB are gonna get whacked with about as much regularity as before AR/HR percentage wise. And as we all know, when we increase the number of percentage points of doe harvested we are INCREASING our take of BB too.

But you already knew that, BT told you that 3 years ago.

Broadhead88

I did it once many years ago on a bitter cold day in late muzzle loader and it almost made me sick when I saw that it was a button buck. Since then, I carefully look at deer and have avoided shooting a BB. I had 2 buttons udner my stand on Monday and it is easy to see the little nubs during archery.

We do have certain guys in our club that are notorius for shooting BB's each and every year.

livbucks

I think you all know how I personally feel about shooting BB, but that opinion is for me only. I would never ridicule anyone who shoots a BB, even on purpose. We all have our own reasons and expectation. In differing circumstances it may be hard to tell and mistakes happen, as in the 100 yard shot in the rain story. I do feel that abstaining from harvesting them is good management. I take exception, however, to someone who shoots them at will and then complains that there are no larger legal buck in their area. That being said, the reason I started this thread was to get an idea of the thinking of a broader group of hunters and not to ridicule anyone. I know I have questioned some guys that shoot BB but their statements openly conflict with their actions on the subject.

PABowhntr

Though not as vocal I tend to be more inline with chickory on this one. I do not go out of my way to shoot or not to shoot button bucks.

deaddeer

I don't complain about shooting BB , because as Chickory pointed out so well, it is inevitable when harvesting large numbers od anterless deer. You interpret a discussion about the impact of harvesting BB on future buck harvest as a complaint and call me a hypocrit, because you can't refute the fact ,that not shooting BB only delays the decrease in the buck harvest 1 year.

I do not target BB, and prefer shooting mature doe , but after the first few days of rifle season I'll take any legal deer because they disappear into posted ground and usualy all we see are fawns.

Buckshot

Ahhhh you and BT must be good buddys.

Your dang straight, but then again myself and my buddys arnt your average everyday hunters. Just because you cant do it, it must not be possible. I can see BT must have taught you how to hunt LMAO

[quote]Did Beenthere tell you that too? Is that why you are upset with numbers?

Remember, if you can't represent it with numbers, it ain't science.
[/quote]

We proved it, like I said were a group of dedicated hunters, who has the skill neccesary to handle the job, but like you said that just pertains to us. We have the kinda hunting ability that lets us tell BBs from fawn doe, but then again maybe we just look for buttons on their heads before we send an arrow or a bullet down its flight path.


See there you go again, saying that not killing BB is a matter of luck, BBs beside having buttons have a differently shaped head, might have something to do with the fact that they have small bumps on there head. And for all the things that BTs said over the years, myself and a whole bunch of other hunters have come to one inescapable conclusion, BT couldnt hunt his way out of a wet paper bag with a chain saw.

deaddeer

If you weren't there when all those doe were shot you are dealing in hearsay and that is a polite way of saying I think you are full of beans.

Furthermore, if you be up to date on the PGC studies you would know that most of those BB you saved will disperse up to 10+ miles away from where they were born. So although you saved them , it is quite probable you will never see them again. But, you did your duty as an Altie and reduced the recruitment rate in your area so there will be even fewer BB in the future. Congradulations!

mauser06

killed one my second year of hunting...first year youth could take does in rifle season...hunted a long day to see a few tails....rained all day too...coming off the mountain he was running right for us....i hid behind a giant tree and shot him when he was broadside with me adn the tree......from a few FEET away....it was my second deer....i check now....and been shooting the biggest maturest does with no teeth in their mouths at all since.....now that im hunting with a flinter alot i gota be careful....i know im going to be passing a few just to be safe.....i may slip up but dont plan to kill any on purpose......