PA BB Harvests
10-19-2004, 06:53 PM
#51
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: .. NH USA
Posts: 970
RE: PA BB Harvests
Not to throw water on the fire or anything, but I wanna know how they actually come up with these " exacting harvest numbers"? Oh, yeah, that's right, from the " yearly report cards".....well, let me just say this----if YOU wanted to do something and could stand to make a boatload of money and kickbacks in the process, and also at the same time had at your fingertips the means to "get 'er done",[8D] let me guess, you wouldn't "tweak" things to fill your pocket?? Sure you wouldn't.
OK, I rest my case. Like I stated before, all of the mumbo jumbo smokescreens, this, that and the other, means SQUAT to me. What means something is the TRUE and FACTUAL yearly sightings and harvestings of quality deer in the area where we have camp, BY HUNTERS THEMSELVES. That's all that matters to me, and all that should matter to any of you sportsmen! Sure, you can play "biologist" and try to increase the antler size by analyzing and theorizing, but at the same time you simply must keep herd populace at levels high enough to sustain yearly harvests, winter kill, road kill, and predation numbers, otherwise you are up a creek.....
And I'm here to tell you, I know of at least one county in North Central PA already well up that creek. After this coming rifle season, one or two in particular will be a virtual wasteland. Make no mistake, others will follow soon also if the "powers that be" allow it to continue. Good luck to all PA hunters this season, but keep a close eye on what is REALLY happening----things tend to sneak up very fast sometimes. Pinwheel 12
OK, I rest my case. Like I stated before, all of the mumbo jumbo smokescreens, this, that and the other, means SQUAT to me. What means something is the TRUE and FACTUAL yearly sightings and harvestings of quality deer in the area where we have camp, BY HUNTERS THEMSELVES. That's all that matters to me, and all that should matter to any of you sportsmen! Sure, you can play "biologist" and try to increase the antler size by analyzing and theorizing, but at the same time you simply must keep herd populace at levels high enough to sustain yearly harvests, winter kill, road kill, and predation numbers, otherwise you are up a creek.....
And I'm here to tell you, I know of at least one county in North Central PA already well up that creek. After this coming rifle season, one or two in particular will be a virtual wasteland. Make no mistake, others will follow soon also if the "powers that be" allow it to continue. Good luck to all PA hunters this season, but keep a close eye on what is REALLY happening----things tend to sneak up very fast sometimes. Pinwheel 12
10-19-2004, 08:23 PM
#52
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,236
RE: PA BB Harvests
I also go by my personal experience in the field, and I am telling you that the buck hunting in the places I frequent has never been better in all my years of hunting. I have had either sightings, missed opportunities or seen hunters in my family take bucks the likes of which were unheard of. True, the sheer numbers of deer are down somewhat but as far as bucks go, there is a more active rut and frequency of more mature animals. Last weekend I had a close encounter with a very nice 2.5 year old 10 point. At first I was even considering passing on him! As it turned out I missed him. The reason I was going to pass on him is because he is nothing compared to a few that we have seen in the immediate area. I am formost a buck hunter though, and getting a deer every year just to fill my tag means next to nothing to me. The opportunity to hunt mature bucks is what drives me, even if I dont succeed. Just having the chance at one keeps me coming back because sooner or later things will come together and I will have the thrill of success. Success that I truly earned.
As far as the north central, we rifle hunt that region and in the last season our party harvested a VERY nice 10 point, a mountable 8 and a scrappy 9 point that had most of his rack broken up from fighting. My Dad, by the way, took the 10 point, his biggest ever, and it hangs on the wall now. A true trophy, mountain buck notwithstanding.
As far as the north central, we rifle hunt that region and in the last season our party harvested a VERY nice 10 point, a mountable 8 and a scrappy 9 point that had most of his rack broken up from fighting. My Dad, by the way, took the 10 point, his biggest ever, and it hangs on the wall now. A true trophy, mountain buck notwithstanding.
10-19-2004, 08:47 PM
#53
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 491
RE: PA BB Harvests
Well , I think it is great that you are benefiting from the effects of AR. However, your success does not offset the lack of success for the 61K other hunters that didn't harvest a buck in 2003 due to AR. If you are hunting in 2 B you are hunting where the herd is still increasing and therefore you aren't experiencing the true effects of alt's plan.
Individual successes or failures are interesting ,but only anecdotal.The true measure of the success or failure of Ar will be determined by the statewide harvest data. So far that data shows that AR has failed to produce the results Alt preicticted it would.
Individual successes or failures are interesting ,but only anecdotal.The true measure of the success or failure of Ar will be determined by the statewide harvest data. So far that data shows that AR has failed to produce the results Alt preicticted it would.
10-20-2004, 04:57 AM
#54
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: .. NH USA
Posts: 970
RE: PA BB Harvests
livbucks, I think that is great that your party is benefitting from the AR----unfortunately for many others tho, it just isn't happening. Our camp logbook, along with input from many other hunters who frequent the area we hunt, tells a whole nuther story.
I sincerely hope you can continue to find one or two of the few remaining "monsters" in the NC area this year. Good luck!
DD--
I truly believe that the "statewide harvest report", whether "tweaked" or not, is a large part of this issue---in some areas there simply isn't the hunter numbers or public land availabilities as there are in other areas, thus the numbers in those areas hasn't seen the significant Herd Reduction as other areas have. Once those areas "catch up", you guys will be crying along with the rest of us. JMHO. Good shooting, Pinwheel 12
I sincerely hope you can continue to find one or two of the few remaining "monsters" in the NC area this year. Good luck!
DD--
I truly believe that the "statewide harvest report", whether "tweaked" or not, is a large part of this issue---in some areas there simply isn't the hunter numbers or public land availabilities as there are in other areas, thus the numbers in those areas hasn't seen the significant Herd Reduction as other areas have. Once those areas "catch up", you guys will be crying along with the rest of us. JMHO. Good shooting, Pinwheel 12
10-20-2004, 07:47 AM
#55
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,236
RE: PA BB Harvests
I just thought I would pass this on. This is a copy of an email I sent to a hunting friend about my hunt last Saturday. I missed the monster that is referred to, last year, by the way.
Experiences like this is what hunting is all about, well for me anyway.
I went out Fri afternoon, got in the stand about 3:30. Wind was all wrong again, I don't know what's going on, weird weather I guess. I didn't see anything.
woke up about 4:00 am on Sat. Got to my dad's house about 5:15, met up with my younger Brother and the three of us headed out. It was a little blustery but not too bad. I was in my stand well before light, all situated and quiet. Still dark, I hear a loud aggressive grunt. My hopes soar. I sit there for a few hours and nothing developed. About 8:00 I hear some noise to my left and downhill so My attention is turned that direction. I watch that way for awhile and then just happen to look right. Out of nowhere, and catching me offguard is a buck standing right in my shooting lane to the right, AT 12 YARDS!. I did not see him come in. he must have come out of the thick stuff in front of me. He has a huge body and is a very pretty dark almost chocolate colored brown. I knew right away he wasn't the monster I have seen but he is a TEN POINT!. A beautiful 2.5 year old with wide spread (My guess 17 inch). Longest point about 7 inches. Very good rack for his age, although kinda spindly and thin. At first thought I decide to let him walk. He turns to face me and looks directly in my eyes and walks CLOSER! He is now at 10 yards and staring into my eyes. He does this for about ten minutes without looking away. I remain totally still and slowly squint my eyes because they are starting to burn. To my surprise he decides I'm no threat and turns around and walks away. He gets about 18 yards out and turns broadside and begins to feed. At this point I can't resist (who am I to pass on a ten point)and slowly stand and aim. He looked bigger walking away. I settle the pin on his ribs and let fly. He hears my release and reacted instantly, drawing his legs up for launch. He ducked so low I don't know how he didn't fall on the ground. I have heard of deer doing this but never had it happen to me. My arrow whizzed right over his back and stuck in the ground. He was gone. I guess he was still tense from the stare down and went off like a hair trigger, ducking my arrow. I sit in the stand for a half hour replaying the scene. I still can't believe it. I can't stand it anymore so I get down to retrieve the arrow. Part of me almost believes that I possibly did hit him and had a passthru. I get the arrow and it is clean, except for the wet dirt on the business end. I get back in the stand and think about it for a while. I come to the conclusion that I am relieved that I missed. I got to have the experience with that buck and still keep my tag for the ear of the monster. He would have looked nice on the wall but not what I know is out there and waiting come the rut.
Pretty good day wouldn't you say?
woke up about 4:00 am on Sat. Got to my dad's house about 5:15, met up with my younger Brother and the three of us headed out. It was a little blustery but not too bad. I was in my stand well before light, all situated and quiet. Still dark, I hear a loud aggressive grunt. My hopes soar. I sit there for a few hours and nothing developed. About 8:00 I hear some noise to my left and downhill so My attention is turned that direction. I watch that way for awhile and then just happen to look right. Out of nowhere, and catching me offguard is a buck standing right in my shooting lane to the right, AT 12 YARDS!. I did not see him come in. he must have come out of the thick stuff in front of me. He has a huge body and is a very pretty dark almost chocolate colored brown. I knew right away he wasn't the monster I have seen but he is a TEN POINT!. A beautiful 2.5 year old with wide spread (My guess 17 inch). Longest point about 7 inches. Very good rack for his age, although kinda spindly and thin. At first thought I decide to let him walk. He turns to face me and looks directly in my eyes and walks CLOSER! He is now at 10 yards and staring into my eyes. He does this for about ten minutes without looking away. I remain totally still and slowly squint my eyes because they are starting to burn. To my surprise he decides I'm no threat and turns around and walks away. He gets about 18 yards out and turns broadside and begins to feed. At this point I can't resist (who am I to pass on a ten point)and slowly stand and aim. He looked bigger walking away. I settle the pin on his ribs and let fly. He hears my release and reacted instantly, drawing his legs up for launch. He ducked so low I don't know how he didn't fall on the ground. I have heard of deer doing this but never had it happen to me. My arrow whizzed right over his back and stuck in the ground. He was gone. I guess he was still tense from the stare down and went off like a hair trigger, ducking my arrow. I sit in the stand for a half hour replaying the scene. I still can't believe it. I can't stand it anymore so I get down to retrieve the arrow. Part of me almost believes that I possibly did hit him and had a passthru. I get the arrow and it is clean, except for the wet dirt on the business end. I get back in the stand and think about it for a while. I come to the conclusion that I am relieved that I missed. I got to have the experience with that buck and still keep my tag for the ear of the monster. He would have looked nice on the wall but not what I know is out there and waiting come the rut.
Pretty good day wouldn't you say?
10-20-2004, 12:13 PM
#56
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 491
RE: PA BB Harvests
While I think it is great that you are benefiting from AR, it would be even better if all PA hunters were sharing the same experience, but they're not. In 2003 only 9.4 K additionl hunters harvested a 2.5+ buck due to AR. At the same time 61K other hunters didn't harvest a buck due to AR. So the ratio of hunters that benefited from AR versus those that didn't is arond 1 : 6.5.
10-20-2004, 12:29 PM
#57
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,236
RE: PA BB Harvests
Yes, that may be true statistically, but how many of those that didn't get a buck only hunted one day? How many that did get a buck hunted more than one day? How many saw a doe first and shot it, and then never went back out for the rest of the year?I think the opportunity is there for those that are devoted to putting in the work. I very rarely have taken a buck on the first day of any season. Time spent is what makes me lucky, at least in my past experience. you can lump the numbers together but unless you dig deeper and see how many hours are spent to tag a buck, comparisons of buck harvests when there were separate seasons are worthless. Combined seasons change the whole dynamic. Pretty obvious why they combined them.
10-20-2004, 04:52 PM
#59
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 491
RE: PA BB Harvests
While it is true that hunters that put in more time will have higher success rates ,we always had hunters that only hunted one day and those that hunted many days and hunted harder. But the same hunters that harvested 203K buck in 2000 and 2001 , were in general the same group of hunters that only harvested 142K buck in 2003. And, it wasn't because they didn't hunt hard enough since the harvest rate for 2.5 + buck was 86 % in 2003, whcih was higher than the 80% harvest rate for 1.5 buck before AR. The harvest was lower because there were fewer legal buck available to be harvested.
Prior to AR the buck harvest success rate was 1 in 5 , with AR it decreasd to 1 in 7 hunters .
Prior to AR the buck harvest success rate was 1 in 5 , with AR it decreasd to 1 in 7 hunters .
10-20-2004, 04:58 PM
#60
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,236
RE: PA BB Harvests
How many saw a doe first day of the combined season, shot it and never came back to hunt for a buck? I have heard of many that considered that doe their deer for the season and didn't hunt after that. Not everyone wants to take a bunch of deer every year and are happy with their one kill.
Nothing wrong with that, but it is a factor, and one that you won't address.
Nothing wrong with that, but it is a factor, and one that you won't address.