chickory

60% ????????

Maybe we better have a link to 'you' numbers....?

chickory

Bob, I would believe that you are seeing less. Most people I talk to say the same thing. But the PGC has said repeatedly they have not reduced pa's herd by one deer since they started the 'plan'. They claim they merely stabilized it at 1.6 mil.
Now there is nobody I know that believes it, but that is the line they have taken and as hunters we have only what they publish to go on....

We look at thier harvest numbers, thier forecasts and thier data to draw conclusions. So what we are being told is the herd is bigger than ever in pa by the official PGC team. Now if your experience does not jive with that, then you are probably like many other pa hunters, but be that as it may....we have only thier word to go on.

So after 5 years of trying they have not reduced the herd by one deer, they have managed to drop the harvest of bucks by 30% and doe harvests dropped the last two years. Yet "the herd is as big as ever"? And this is with more liberal seasons and weapons use, the harvests dropped?

So......

Could it be that the herd really is being reduced a slight 3-5% each year for the last 3? PGC says no, bigger than ever. Could the slightly reduced herd size account for the slightly reduced harvests? PGC says no, its windy weather.

Could it be the PGC wants to portray the picture that the herd is bigger than ever so that hunters won't slack off on thier zest for overharvest which is what is needed for continuing to reduce the herd? I guess you will have to decide that one for yourself!


One thing is for sure, around 20% of the antlerless harvest this season will be buck. Just like the sun will come up in the morning.

If we truly want the reductions that the PGC says we need then someone has to start shooting anything that moves. If the last 3 seasons didn't drop the herd size by one bit....then you better start shooting anything that moves...and some!

Save the habitat and our ecosystem!

Take away the hype of our deer plan and what do you have left? A plan that calls for herd reductions and a team that has not delivered on that plan.

deaddeer

On page 70 of the Hunting Digest the PGC states the normally the harvest contains 54% adult doe and 46% fawns. In 2003 it changed to 61% adult doe and 39% fawns. A WCO from Elhk Co posted the official totals on another MB ,but the post has since been deleted.

rybohunter

This is the most beaten dead horse I've ever seen.

deaddeer

Were you planning on going for a ride on this dead horse? If not, why do you care that we are talking about it?

livbucks

Rybo, lets bury it before it stinks up the place.

chickory

you can try to bury it, and hide it away... but its an issue that doesn't go away just because you wish it would. It was known up front by the deer team that increasing pressure on the antlerless population meant more BB would be harvested along side.

Like you, many chose then to ignore that fact, and just stare longingly at he big rack Gary was waving in the high school gymnasium (ad nauseum btw). And now we merely remind you what was know from the beginning, that the shock and awe would not be there with AR combined with HR. (Pike, we still thank you for that thread).

For dropping our buck harvests 61000 since AR started...all we got were a few holdover buck that might be an 8 point now instead of a 7 point. Maybe a few more tens only in areas of good habitat.

Now there is a stat that many would like to bury. Three straight years of declining harvests. That means this year there will be more competition for the fewer deer in the smaller herd. IMO that means we may see more folks pulling the trigger quicker because they aren't seeing as many deer overall. And when they walk up and see a BB they will have comfort in knowing that 20% of all the hunters who take antlerless take a buck.

You just can't tap dance around that one. Kip Adams tries, Gary tries, John Ozoga tries but it don't go away.

cardeer

That was not even a big rack he was waving LOL ,to boot it was not even shot where any of us could hunt. The whole BB problem can be solved by we the hunter only.By educating ourselves to ID a button ,then following thru and restraining from shooting it.

Ruddyduck

I admit I got my numbers wrong , I posted off the top of my head. The 60% was the increase to which adult females where taken compared to 54%. The numbers where bb went from 46% of antlerless harvest to 39%. A 13% DROP IN BB HARVESTEDin 2003,not an increase, Page 70. Pa. Hunting Digest. I also know there was a similar drop in the other years of AR.

livbucks

Fingers will always point in the right direction eventually. And for the record, I have NEVER shot a BB.