BarnesX.308

My dad was up at our hunting camp this weekend and saw 6 different bucks, plenty of doe and 2 coyotes. This is Sullivan County. 3 of the bucks were 130+ eight pointers and the others were a big 6-point, a mediocre 5-point a 4-point and a spike. Sounds promising this year. Even better - the wife isn't pregnant so I'll get to hunt this year.

Jason N

No, no, no, there are less deer! You can't be successful and kill bucks. You're just a self-righteous Alty! How dare things in your neck of the woods look promising when others are going home empty handed?

Sorry, I couldn't resist! Glad to hear everything is looking promising for you. Looking good around here too. Archery season is coming up soon and I'm ready to hit the hills....It's been too long since I've hunted DEER![8D]

livbucks

Not only that but Barnes uses conservative figures. He stated 6 bucks but listed seven. He must have been dreaming though, because there are no deer left in PA. A couple of guys said deer hunting is over in PA. Might as well stay home. I hope a lot of guys do stay home...hehehehe.

cardeer

Sounds good.

deaddeer

We heard the same over optimistic reports prior to the 2003 season and the buck harvest declined by 23 K, even though the herd was larger than ever and we harvested 86% of the 2.5+ buck carried over from 2002. So far I haven't seen any buck in 5C and the neighbor who feeds them has only seen a Y and a 5 pt. A couple nice 8 pts. were hit by cars but no one I talked to is seeing anything above normal.

Joe D.

Deaddeer, I've seen about a 50/50 ratio of bucks/does in Montgomery County, and it was SGL. I have been seeing them mostly in the evening however.

BarnesX.308

Oops. That's fuzzy math. He actually saw the 5-pointer on his way home and it was not included in the original "six bucks" figure that he gave me. I forgot to adjust the number in my status report.

BarnesX.308

By the way - we often see more bucks in the pre-season than we do during the hunting season. This has been the case since Alt was a bear guru. Summer patterns are predictable and the humans that the deer come in contact with are either hiking, biking or working - not hunting. Right now, deer have no problem crossing a road in the day time and they'll feed in a field before it gets dark. After the first frost, feeding patterns will change. Then comes small game and archery. Once rifle season hits, the feeding patterns have changed, the rut has come and gone and the deer have been pressured. The deer still exist but are less visible. Big bucks are nocturnal and does will have different patterns than they did when they were visible in September. Yearling bucks will move off to other areas also. I'm not taking either side of this argument - I'm reporting the facts as I see them. Put some corn out after the season and you'll see those deer coming out of the wood work. It just makes you realize that they are tough to find even when they are out there. Ever cast every lure in your tackle box to a fish you can see? Just because he's there, doesn't mean you'll catch him. I wouldn't mind seeing more deer either but I just take every hunting season as it comes.

livbucks

I will refrain from debating the issue any longer. The anti-Alt group is dead set in their position. I have been an AR man before most hunters ever knew what that means. I have been practicing it on my own for years, (I.E.: not shooting the first legal buck I see, waiting for more mature animals). As far as deer density, one cannot spread the deer out in the landscape like pepperoni on a pizza. Some areas will be sparse and some dense, as well as periodic changes one way or the other. I have seen years where the mountain we hunt on in rifle was loaded with bucks, and years where the area was devoid of deer or sign. Scouting was invented for just such a situation. I go by my experience in the woods and don't make rash accusations or far reaching conclusions because the season was an unproductive one. Time spent is what increases success. I truthfully do not think Gary Alt would sacrifice his integrity as a professional and place the herd in jeopardy in some clandestine plan to use and fool the hunting public. If enough hunters in a WMU have complaints, certainly lobby for change in that WMU. But don't condemn the plan as a whole and make conspiracy claims about a respected biologist because of your hunting experience in the last few years. Like BarnesX said,

deaddeer

The success ratio for the average hunter is determined by the number of PS legal buck available to be harvested, not by the amount of effort expended by the individual hunter. The max. sustainable harvet is determined by the number of buck that survive to become legal 1.5 buck and the increased anterless harvests are constantly reducing that number.

Alt has in fact scraficed his integrity, to insure forest recertification and hunting in PA will never be better than it was in 2001, if Alt succeeds with his plan to reduce the herd by 50%.