Bill Yox

Oh no, I hope we arent going to get started with the old coydog thing now, lol. Superior predators normally drive away or kill the competition, so coyotes moving into a new area may initially cross with a free roaming or wild dog but are more likely to kill it. Once the coyotes are established, cross breeding seldom continues. Plus, domestic dog cycles often puts offspring on the ground at the wrong time of the year, etc. Dont underestimate the size of northwest coyotes! I mean north, not just our northern states. The eastern coyote is in a league all its own, though.

jhoffman

Absolutely True. I know of quite a few incidents where the coyotes have actually called a dog into the woods or into a field like they where going to play together only to have the coyotes have the dog for dinner. I noticed more of the coydog type coyote when they first started commign into the area. There are a few farmers around that say they still see a couple coydogs but for the most part there are just plane old yotes running around but the populations are just getting out of control in a couple areas. We need to get a couple more predator hunters out there to help control the population. I rank calling for fox and coyotes right up there with bow hunting for whitetails. Love It!

jhoffman

One more thing. I have noticed is that the coyote put a real dent in the gray fox population too. I used to have 3 to 5 grays come in at any given time when I was out calling now when and if they come in its usually only one maybe two and when they come the come in a hurry to beet the competition to the dinner table. Gray don't stand a chance against a coyote they only have being able to high tail it up a tree to thier advantage.

bigbadmoosegal

Back in the mid 80's while I was attending college in the westernmost part of Massachusetts, I went bowhunting in the mountains that surrounded the college town. While walking out one day after a morning hunt, something caught my attention that wasn't quite right moving behind a huge pile of slash on the ground. A few seconds later, out comes a cow moose not 15 yards away and staring right at me. When I returned to town and back to the house, I called the State and told them what I had seen. The man on the other line that I was transferred to asked me if I was sure what I had seen, because according to the State, there were no moose in massachusetts. Well low and behold, we now have a thriving moose population that are starting to cause problems.
Back in 1992, I was in Maine hunting a bear bait one evening, and about an hour or so before dark I caught a glimpse of something move is the brush about 40 yards from my position. Seconds later, a wolf, yes a wolf, cruised through my set up checking my bait and moved off after passing not 5 yards from my stand. At dark as I was just shoving my boat off as I was on a lake, That wolf let out the most beautiful calls I have ever heard that made my hair on the back of my next stand straight up. Upon returning to town, I once again called the State to inform them of what i had witnessed. Once again, I was asked if I was sure, because according to the State, there are no wolf in Maine. Well not ten years later, confirmation came when a trapper produced a confirmed wolf. Now the State not only acnowledges that their are wolf in Maine, but have shut down the coyote snare program to protect the wolf.
Also back in the early 90's, i was driving home one evening in a semi-rural suburb of boston. As I rounded a bend my headlights caught something on the side of the road. Immediately, 3 coyotes ran across the road and dissappeared. The next day i called the state yet again to report what i had seen and I was told that it must have been someones pets, as there are no coyotes in eastern massachusetts. Not 5 years later, I was averaging killing 20 a year not 3 miles from my first sighting.
My point is this. Just because the so called "experts" say something isn't so, means nothing. Take it from me, i have three nothings under my belt, that are all somethings now. And as far as not having the space to hold cougars....thats just bull crap. The northeast has PLENTY of BIG WOODS. To say that we know about anything and everything that is roaming those woods is foolish. Their is no doubt that we have cougars here, as few as their numbers may be. The sightings and reports are becoming more frequent, and it won't be long now before all the nay-sayers will be eating crow.

Bill Yox

The difference between an isolated lion sighting that may be a wild lion moving in or a captive escapee is the point here. I dont know how many ways to say it. Thats a far cry from them moving in and setting up housekeeping for good. You know what they say about beating a dead horse though, so Ill drop this and let the folks who think theyre making a comeback get their "welcome lions" signs in place. Wolves in Maine? They were there when I hunted spring bears in Maine, and that was 20 years ago. Moose in the northeast is a tricky one, as their susceptible to brainworm, which deer carry. So, as deer advance, moose retreat. Nature does a great job of making sure they dont need to compete for browse at two levels. Brainworm creates that buffer zone. As browse becomes more mature, deer and brainworm recede, and moose thrive. Old growth gets too tall, neither does well. Old growth comes down or burns, moose flourish...until the deer move back.

Jhoffman, I see our grey fox numbers go up and down near me. I believe distemper really hurt our greys. My friends from other areas always note how once coyotes get established, reds and greys are gone, yet by me this doesnt seem to be the case. My theory is with all the roadways and plentiful prey and roadkills, all three show stable numbers, and less competition. In more open and truly rural areas, coyotes again take over. Thats just my opinion this time, though. Oh, and around here, guys have coyote contests, run them with dogs, and trap them hard. How about by you?

Bill Yox

Sorry, I submitted too soon. On that last note about the raging lion debate...I simply disagree, I hold no hard feelings towards those who dont share my opinion on the cats. I guess its simply a matter of agreeing to disagree. I saw a bobcat in Cohocton NY a few years back. We could go on forever as to why medium sized cats dont do well here either, in spite of all the deer. Nah, nevermind!

jhoffman

I have seen a couple of bobcat through the years in WNY, 1 with a couple of kittens crossing a logging rd in Humphrey, NY in Golden Hill State Forest - Great state land for Turkey, and one in Deleven at a tree famr Blue Hill Arboretum (don't know if I spelled that right or not) this one I saw just last fall while scouting before bow season.

Bill Yox, I used to trap coyotes and Fox real hard every year but, I have three kids, a career, and a fiance now - trapping kind of took a back burner. I still hunt them mwith my brother pretty hard though. Calling them is the primary way people hun them around me but I know of a couple people who put on drives like you would for deer, and one guy over near Springville, NY uses dogs but that's the only person I have ever heard of local that uses dogs on yotes. I haven't heard of any real competitions though besides the casual - i shot more than you did try and top that - type between hunting partners.

I see the Gray fox population go down but, the reds don't seem to be impacted by the coyotes as much as the grays. My opinion is that grays think they are as tough as coyotes - The Mighty Mouse Syndrom - they are real aggressive and I think they might just compete with the coyotes a little more for food than the reds do and the coyotes end up winning that battle - I think the reds are a little more shy and tend to just stay away from the yotes. Could be a combination of your reasoning and this - can't really say.

Phade

Although it is certainly possible, it is not likely that this is the only cause. Grey fox are widely known to be able to survive in yote territory. Red fox are the ones normally pushed out.

This has been well known for years and years. Ask any longtime trapper, and they will agree. Dobbins I believe even covered the topic.

Not only can they climb, but litters are often had in the trees when coyotes move into a territory. Plus the grey fox can easily out manuver a single or pair of yotes. The advantage shifts to the yotes when pack hunting, but rarely is a grey fox pushed out of an area.

Plus you have to consider density numbers. Coyotes roam more ground, in less numbers. Gray fox roam less ground in more defined territorial numbers.

Go to trapperman.com and post there, and some of those wise men can tell you more, they really know their stuff there.

PA GOBBLER

i know this is to be about cats but, i dont know if it was a coydog or not. all i know is the thing kinda looks like a coyote, but barks like a dog, not a coyote bark and its not afraid of man..fact it comes at you.. and its 3 miles away from any house and its been there that i know of 6 weeks.... our coyote pop. has been around for a while also.. if i get it ill post pics and im taking it to the PGC and ill find out what it is..

moosehornhunter

PAGOBBLER....BE CAREFUL!!! Those coydogs are no joke. They will visciously attack if given the opportunity. I came across one here one time when me and my friend were on his 4 wheeler. The thing ambushed us as we drove by and nearly got us. Quite scary let me tell ya....this thing would have killed us both. I never did go back to that piece of woods, so I don't know whatever happened to it....Just be careful!!!!