Just got back from the DE Deer Hunting Workshop
05-27-2004, 09:19 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wilmington Delaware USA
Posts: 699
Just got back from the DE Deer Hunting Workshop
It was an interesting meeting. This was the New Castle Co. workshop. There were about 30 guys there. The presentation took about an hour and then 20 people, including myself voiced opinions on the proposed season changes and other issues. That took 2 hours. Some people thought there was no population problem. Others though there was a problem and suggested other ways to bring the herd in line. Im too tired to go into details now, but I will soon.
05-28-2004, 03:02 PM
#2
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wilmington Delaware USA
Posts: 699
RE: Just got back from the DE Deer Hunting Workshop
Last nights meeting was an interesting one. First, Mr Moore spoke and
reviewed the reasons on why these proposed Anterless Firearm days in
October are necessary. We all know what they are. Crop damage, Landscape
damage, auto collisions, Forrest destruction, out of balanced herd, etc.
He also stressed that if the DNREC didnt act, someone else would. When I
asked during Q&A who was 'putting the gun to the divisions head' to act, he
stated that the DNREC had been 'called to the legislature 3 times in the
last few months' asking what they are going to do about the deer 'problem'.
Now we know where the pressure is coming from. But, I'm jumping ahead.
Next, Ken Reynolds gave a 45 min power point presentation going over the
history of deer, deer hunting and where we stand now in DE. Interesting
facts I jotted down are: They think the herd is comprised of approx 30,000
animals, although they dont have accurate data on density by zone, last
years harvest was 11,688 deer with 55% being does and 21% of the antlerless
deer killed were button bucks. The goal with these new seasons is to
increase the % doe kill to 65 and decrease the button buck kill to 10% of
the antlerless take.
Then it was time for the hunters to ask questions or make comments. I have
to tell you, I didnt envy Ken or Gene at this point. 17 people voice
opinions, concerns, questions for more than 2 hours and they patiently
stood up there and took it all in an answered us the best they could.
Highlights of what was said is as follows:
1) October Gun Seasons would result in a decrease in the November Shotgun
Kill, hence creating no benefit
2) Increased development and habitat loss makes it seem like there's more
deer, when there really isnt.
3) Sunday Hunting (at least 5 guys including myself) We were told to press
our Reps in the Legislature to introduce legislation. Its out of DNRECs
hand until that point.
4) Unlimited Free Antlerless tags
5) Begin the Archery Season in Mid August (On the table for future years)
6) Test the new seasons on known high doe density areas first before going
state wide
7) Seasons implemented by zones, not state wide. (Ken said that as they
gather more data, that is probably what will happen, but it'll be at least
a couple of years.)
8) More aggressive hunts in State Parks with less restrictions on hunters
9) Move the Antlerless days into December and improve the deer tagging
system
10) Impose QDM Regulations to turn people towards shooting does and not
young bucks.
11) More surveys and data collection
12) More butcher participation in the Hunters Feeding the Hungry program.
13) Someone asked for a show of hands for/against the proposal. The room
was split about 50/50.
When it was my turn, I gave them the benefit of the doubt and assumed there
was an immediate need to increase the deer kill. My concern was that the
proposed plan simply wouldnt work. I said no one is going to take vacation
time from work and not have the opportunity to take a Buck. Whether that
attitude is just, is irrelevant, its just a fact. Then I gave stats on how
the 2 Sunday hunting days last year in MD helped take over 2900 deer and
showed how with just one year (2002) with Antler Restrictions and increased
antlerless tags, PA's kill ratio from bucks to does shifted dramatically.
The system they are proposing now is unproven. Its a best guess. It'd be
better to just issue the 2 extra doe tags this year as planned, do more
research and data collection to find out where the deer are causing the
most problems, then liberalize the seasons in those areas.
If they had more facts, I feel hunters would be glad to rise to the
occasion and do their part. If they could prove to me, with solid data,
that the zones I hunt desperately needed the herd culled, i'd put my bow
away in October in a second and pull out the shotgun and take does only.
The problem is, DNREC is being pressured by politicians in an election year
to do SOMETHING. This proposal is just a way the DNREC can say "Look,
here's what we did, if it doesnt work, we'll change it next year"
If I've learned anything over the years its putting a plan into action just
for the sake of doing so is a recipe for disaster. DNREC says they have no
more time to wait. Well, its the deer and the hunters who pay the price if
the plan fails. I have to think a little more about it, but from what I
heard last night, I dont think this is the way to go. Not that it matters,
its probably pretty much a done deal at this point.
Opinions?
The public hearing to record final comments is June 30th in Dover. Call
DNREC for the time and place if interested.
reviewed the reasons on why these proposed Anterless Firearm days in
October are necessary. We all know what they are. Crop damage, Landscape
damage, auto collisions, Forrest destruction, out of balanced herd, etc.
He also stressed that if the DNREC didnt act, someone else would. When I
asked during Q&A who was 'putting the gun to the divisions head' to act, he
stated that the DNREC had been 'called to the legislature 3 times in the
last few months' asking what they are going to do about the deer 'problem'.
Now we know where the pressure is coming from. But, I'm jumping ahead.
Next, Ken Reynolds gave a 45 min power point presentation going over the
history of deer, deer hunting and where we stand now in DE. Interesting
facts I jotted down are: They think the herd is comprised of approx 30,000
animals, although they dont have accurate data on density by zone, last
years harvest was 11,688 deer with 55% being does and 21% of the antlerless
deer killed were button bucks. The goal with these new seasons is to
increase the % doe kill to 65 and decrease the button buck kill to 10% of
the antlerless take.
Then it was time for the hunters to ask questions or make comments. I have
to tell you, I didnt envy Ken or Gene at this point. 17 people voice
opinions, concerns, questions for more than 2 hours and they patiently
stood up there and took it all in an answered us the best they could.
Highlights of what was said is as follows:
1) October Gun Seasons would result in a decrease in the November Shotgun
Kill, hence creating no benefit
2) Increased development and habitat loss makes it seem like there's more
deer, when there really isnt.
3) Sunday Hunting (at least 5 guys including myself) We were told to press
our Reps in the Legislature to introduce legislation. Its out of DNRECs
hand until that point.
4) Unlimited Free Antlerless tags
5) Begin the Archery Season in Mid August (On the table for future years)
6) Test the new seasons on known high doe density areas first before going
state wide
7) Seasons implemented by zones, not state wide. (Ken said that as they
gather more data, that is probably what will happen, but it'll be at least
a couple of years.)
8) More aggressive hunts in State Parks with less restrictions on hunters
9) Move the Antlerless days into December and improve the deer tagging
system
10) Impose QDM Regulations to turn people towards shooting does and not
young bucks.
11) More surveys and data collection
12) More butcher participation in the Hunters Feeding the Hungry program.
13) Someone asked for a show of hands for/against the proposal. The room
was split about 50/50.
When it was my turn, I gave them the benefit of the doubt and assumed there
was an immediate need to increase the deer kill. My concern was that the
proposed plan simply wouldnt work. I said no one is going to take vacation
time from work and not have the opportunity to take a Buck. Whether that
attitude is just, is irrelevant, its just a fact. Then I gave stats on how
the 2 Sunday hunting days last year in MD helped take over 2900 deer and
showed how with just one year (2002) with Antler Restrictions and increased
antlerless tags, PA's kill ratio from bucks to does shifted dramatically.
The system they are proposing now is unproven. Its a best guess. It'd be
better to just issue the 2 extra doe tags this year as planned, do more
research and data collection to find out where the deer are causing the
most problems, then liberalize the seasons in those areas.
If they had more facts, I feel hunters would be glad to rise to the
occasion and do their part. If they could prove to me, with solid data,
that the zones I hunt desperately needed the herd culled, i'd put my bow
away in October in a second and pull out the shotgun and take does only.
The problem is, DNREC is being pressured by politicians in an election year
to do SOMETHING. This proposal is just a way the DNREC can say "Look,
here's what we did, if it doesnt work, we'll change it next year"
If I've learned anything over the years its putting a plan into action just
for the sake of doing so is a recipe for disaster. DNREC says they have no
more time to wait. Well, its the deer and the hunters who pay the price if
the plan fails. I have to think a little more about it, but from what I
heard last night, I dont think this is the way to go. Not that it matters,
its probably pretty much a done deal at this point.
Opinions?
The public hearing to record final comments is June 30th in Dover. Call
DNREC for the time and place if interested.
05-29-2004, 11:01 AM
#4
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wilmington Delaware USA
Posts: 699
RE: Just got back from the DE Deer Hunting Workshop
I've never been a big fan of Earn a Buck because you'll get clowns out there shooting fawns just to satisfy the requirement. That said, I'd support that plan over the one on the table now.
06-02-2004, 09:42 AM
#5
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Slower Lower Delaware 1st State
Posts: 1,776
RE: Just got back from the DE Deer Hunting Workshop
I went to Dover meeting 2 weeks ago. 2 hrs long with Q&A. 2-3 suggestions were made - Allow cross bows and hand guns. Hand guns will never fly in election year.
Have select group of hunters certified by F&W to help farmers control deer pop.
No doubt farmers need to buy into this whole plan.
I know from living down here in sussex we have a HUGE problem with buck/doe ratio in many areas including state park areas (Killans and Trappe pond). Just one example - I frequently drive 1/2 mile down road from home at dusk and see 40+ deer in 2 fields and only 4-5 racks in the bunch - thats insane!
IMO - if hunters would have taken (practiced QDM) more does in past years we would probably not be at this juncture now with skewed buck/doe ratio along with host of other problems. Deer hunters can be their own worst enemy at times.
Anyway - something needs to be done and I personaly would rather trust F&W to work with us Delaware hunters than have regs mandated thru legislative pressure. Worse yet have hired guns come into Delaware to handle it.
They are having another meeting down here in Sussex this week or next. That one should be a heated debate for sure!
Later
Have select group of hunters certified by F&W to help farmers control deer pop.
No doubt farmers need to buy into this whole plan.
I know from living down here in sussex we have a HUGE problem with buck/doe ratio in many areas including state park areas (Killans and Trappe pond). Just one example - I frequently drive 1/2 mile down road from home at dusk and see 40+ deer in 2 fields and only 4-5 racks in the bunch - thats insane!
IMO - if hunters would have taken (practiced QDM) more does in past years we would probably not be at this juncture now with skewed buck/doe ratio along with host of other problems. Deer hunters can be their own worst enemy at times.
Anyway - something needs to be done and I personaly would rather trust F&W to work with us Delaware hunters than have regs mandated thru legislative pressure. Worse yet have hired guns come into Delaware to handle it.
They are having another meeting down here in Sussex this week or next. That one should be a heated debate for sure!
Later
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