rem700man

I have a question, Where do you find the #'s of deer killed throughout the late summer in the red & green tagged areas of Clinton/Centre co's? I see a pissload of statistics for the # of deer being taken during all the regular gun,bow,,ml seasons but i see crap for the # of deer being killed for crop damage. Whhere does all this fit into the QDM #'s,,,hidden or shoved under the rest of the paperwork??? I know the area that i hunt & i know it well,,,in 25 yrs of hunting this area Clinton/centre co's,,,i have never seen such a dramatic change in deer populations as i have seen in the past 3 yrs. The deer are not there like they were before like it or not! I have been told that maybe i need to change my hunting practices & even move to a different area on here before?BS!!!!!!! Unless i was thrown a powerful learning curve somewhere in the past, im sure that what im seein is the real thing. Ive seen a huge increase in coyotes,,,bobcats,,etc.. The hunt club next to me that lives on the landinforms me of the Amish killin hundreds of deer in a late summer season,,,where do these #'s tally in??? The deer are not there!! bucks,,,doe,,BB's,,,there not there,,,it's that simple! So,,,enlighten me,,,where does all this fit into QDM?
Thanx Mike

BTBowhunter

Good question Rem700! You might want to read the results of the fawn mortality studies. Coyotes, bears and bobcats took a way heavier toll than doe hunting in both study areas. It may not address your specific area but it definitely shows some surprising results and gives you something to think about.

deaddeer

If you believe Alt included parking lots and malls when he caculated the new OWDD's than you must have less respect for his intelligence and professionalism than I have. Everyone but you knows that the DPSM refers to deer PSM of huntable habitat, rather than to the total area of the state.

Alt knew from the beginning that the BB harvest would prevent AR from succeeding based on what happened in Ark. ,but he didn't care. It is clear from the article in American Hunter ,that he implemented AR to get hunters to shoot more doe ,and it worked. In a few years,when AR's are repealed he will blame its failure on the hunters,because they weren't selective enough and shot too many BB. But, the simple fact is ,that when you are reducing the herd by 50% there are going to be a lot fewer BB whether we shoot them ,or if we shoot the adult doe that produce them. Not shooting BB,but shooting adult doe instead ,just delays the effect by one year ,but the result is the same,fewer BB and lower antlered buck harvests.

deaddeer

The answer is ,that the PA plan is not anywhere close to a QDM plan. No QDM deer manager would attempt to reduce the herd to 50% below the max. carrying capacity. No QDM plan would prevent the culling of inferior buck as AR does. There is nothing in the PA plan that will improve the habitat statewide and simply reducing the OWDD will have little if any effect in many areas where the forest is comprised of pole timber and ferns.

Fawn mortality is not the reason you have less deer in Clinton and Centre , the high anterless harvest of 94 and 95,and are the reason. Once the harvest exceed recruitment it takes a lower harvest the following years to reduce the herd even more and that is what happened in you area and it explains why 2 G is now at 12 DPSM. With only 8 doe PSM producing fawns predation will have a greater impact since there are fewer fawns for the predators to prey on. If predator populations are increasing and fawn production is decreasing , predation will have a more pronounced effect,which is the exact oppposite of what Alt claimed would happen.

juniorpc

Well that's good DD, because you told me QDM only works well on private land and hunting clubs a few posts back. Glad his isn't a QDM plan!
Hey I haven't seen a deer in weeks are we sure there are deer still in PA?? Juniorpc.