deaddeer

You started this thread in another feeble attempt to defend Alt and his highly flawed plan. Both Alt and AR will be history in 4 or 5 years ,so maybe you should follow your own advice and get over it. You certainly can't defend his plan based on science and facts ,since even Alt admits the OWDD tables are wrong and they are the foundation for his entire plan.

BTBowhunter

Hi Rack attack! Welcome to the Pennsylvania, the new home of the Hatfield/Mccoy fued.

It is partly what you suggested, partly this year due to horrible weather, and to a small extent (IMHO) the higher BB kill from higher doe allotments, a necessary evil that no one has given a feasible solution to.

The point is that we are only going into our third year at this. It is not an exact science.

Some folks just have no patience and expect ALL results to be immediately everything they hoped for. Kinda what we're experiencing nationwide with the Iraq situation.

Since you said you're new here, I'll mention thaty you have to be careful around here with the deluge of "facts and figures" many have only a shred of truthfulness and are intentionally taken out of context. Trust what you see here only after verification.

Most here, from both sides, see some value in the other sides case.
we also have to put up with the camp that just plain doesn't like Dr Alt and will say just about anything to discredit him even though he continues to be praised by his peers in the field as well as most Pa hunters.

BTBowhunter

DD, If as you say, the OWDD goals are wrong and Alt admits that( it was probably in the context that they need to be modified as we go) Then I trust that he will fix them. Period.

Wouldn't it be professional suicide to admit something is wrong and then continue to follow that course.

deaddeer

Be careful what you wish for . Your herd is being managed at 10-35 DPSM. The goal for our herd is 13 DPSM. In agricutural areas,where we have the best habitat the goal is 5 -10 DPSM. If we reach our goals we will be harvesting 2 buck PSM and with AR our buck harvest decreased by 30% in just two years and it will decrease by more than 50% if we reach our goals.

If that is what you want for Wisc. ,hire someone like Alt to manage your herd.

BTBowhunter

What I said.... Verify the numbers.... And the context!

deaddeer

The new OWDD goals were just announced this year and they were based on the new computer model which was based on the most up to date data. Why in heavens name would they have to be modified before they even had a chance to be implemented.

Alt has little to worry about because the UBP and the Federation is still backing him and very few people know about the OWDD gaols. He also knows that they will never reach those goals because of restricted hunter access.

I have no idea what numbers you want me to verify. The OWDD goals are on the PGC web site. What more due you want.

Maybe you are still looking for the link for the OWDD goals and if you are,here is the link one more time.

http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/v...A=495&Q=161094

Klic on the PDF file and read it and weap.

Rack-attack

As an outsider with no emotional ties to this whole feasco - I do find it interesting.

And I can see both sides.

I can see DD's concerns, and if the BB kill is much higher than pre Alt years I can see it having an adverse effect on Alts goals. Lets face it - if the BB count gets out of control - you may be taking a step backwards.

I do want to bring up a point though ,a point I havn't seen presented. If AR's stay in effect I don't think you will ever get your buck kills up to where they were - unless the hunters themselves change. Some on here may rip me for this but..................there are many hunters out there - like in PA - that really don't give themselves a real oportunity to kill any buck but a 1-1/2 year old. And it may not matter how many more mature bucks are in a population - because many hunters cannot consistantly put themselves over these deer. A mature buck is still a mature buck, lets face it - and "Joe blackberry brandy in his pocket sitting on a log" still isn't gonna see him. I have said this before, and I will say it here - even a solid QDM policy will not benefit the majority of the weekend warrior buck seakers - they will have to shoot a doe or eat tag soup.

Find a way to get that BB kill count down a little, give it some time, and hunt smart - and IMO it will start to pay off.

Thats if all you care about is bigger racks...........like me

deaddeer

Here is the link for the OWDD and unless you are three steps slower than an amoeba you will realize they can't be taken out of context. They are what they are .

http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/v...A=495&Q=161094

BTBowhunter

AYUUUPPP, just three steps slower than an amoeba and you, of course are SAKU!! (Source of All Knowledge in the Universe)

Guess I just have to learn that a bean counter on acid certainly knows more about deer management than an accomplished wildlife biologist with a PHD in his field.

It's meaningless to you that the new OWDD goals now include parking lots, malls, golf courses, suburban backyards, in the total square miles used in the calculation. No matter, that stuff is meaningless and all your statements are accurate and in context.

Wulp Me'n my ameoba friends shore nuff hope when Alt gits f'ard that thars nuff spikes and forkies left so's we kin go back to a blastin heck outt've em on op'nin day. Weez hopin you'd be partial ta takin over fer that no account deer wiper outer Alt.

Here's ta Doctor SAKU and his management plan!

BTBowhunter

Rack Attack,

Your point is well taken. It's kind of early to tell but the BB kill is something that needs scrutiny. What you won't hear from the other side is that this is a concern to ALt and the PGC too. One that has no easy solution given the fact that we have over a million hunters out there. I do know that the whole picture is being adressed on a first things first basis and the first thinmg that needs to happen is a substantial herd reduction in certain areas and at least some reduction in most. Alt has said that once we stabilize the herd we may need to change things even more.

One of the biggest reasons I support whats going on despite some personal misgivings is that Dr Alt has aknowleged over and over that we are entering uncharted waters. He has said that we will make mistakes and we will correct them as we go. I think it reasonable to give that game plan a chance to succeed or fail. If it were to fail, the reproductive capability of the whitetail deer will put things back in order very rapidly!