Cougars in Southern NY State
11-16-2004, 08:26 PM
#91
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,236
RE: Cougars in Southern NY State
Mr. NY Outdoors,
I would think you would be a little more friendly to me as I said I am a believer and have had a sighting in PA of my own. I do feel it is my responsibility to discredit bad sources, even if they support my position.
You asked and you shall receive:
http://forum.hunting.net/asppg/tm.as...y=cougar%2Cpic
I feel I did you a huge favor and saved you much embarassment. That IS a mule deer by the way and NOT conjecture OR hearsay. Your copy is obviously stolen as it is very blurry as compared to the earlier posted copy. You said you would accept proof and there it is.
I would think you would be a little more friendly to me as I said I am a believer and have had a sighting in PA of my own. I do feel it is my responsibility to discredit bad sources, even if they support my position.
You asked and you shall receive:
http://forum.hunting.net/asppg/tm.as...y=cougar%2Cpic
I feel I did you a huge favor and saved you much embarassment. That IS a mule deer by the way and NOT conjecture OR hearsay. Your copy is obviously stolen as it is very blurry as compared to the earlier posted copy. You said you would accept proof and there it is.
11-17-2004, 08:51 AM
#92
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 45
RE: Cougars in Southern NY State
THANK YOU and that was why I posted it. I wanted confirmation one way or another. I'm impartial either way.
Please don't call me MR. though ...... makes me feel like I'm infront of a judge again.
sorry if i'm not nice either.......looking for answers not friends.
Like I said, I've been in contact with a DEC Officer and he also got the photo as well. He mentioned the ponderosa pine should have given it away....... i guess he's talking about that tree.
I wanted to discredit it if i could and that's why I posted it as well as the "story" behind it
This mornings paper(Bighamton's Press &Sun Bulletin wed Nov 17th) in the Outdoors section page 2c actually has an article about cougar sightings as well as mentioning this picture that's floating around town and that it is just that ..... a mule deer hoax.
That guy that writes that section seems like a total self centered jackhole though and totaly discrediting these "big cat" sightings altogether. People are seeing some type of large cat.
I can accept the fact that they might not be cougars but they sure are big whatever they are and they are cats..... no mistaking that.
IF we are not seeing cougars.........my only question is, what the heck are these cats then? They are obviously way bigger than any house cat and they have a tail........not a bob tail.
I might add the ones we have spotted are not even close to black in color.
mule deer .....white tail deer, to me just a damn deer and something you hit with a car.
Talked with all the neighbors and no one else has seen a "cat" around or loose. The ones that i talked to that own a cat or cats...... I asked if I could see them so as to make sure we are not spotting one their cats. I have yet to find a comparable house cat in the area as to what we've spotted in last couple weeks.
Thanks again for that link and taking the time to find it again.....
Guess it's time to put the camera away and load the .243 ........ haven't shot anything in a long time but sounds like that will be the only way to prove it. Gotta kill it. If they aren't there, i won't get into trouble right?
Please don't call me MR. though ...... makes me feel like I'm infront of a judge again.
sorry if i'm not nice either.......looking for answers not friends.
Like I said, I've been in contact with a DEC Officer and he also got the photo as well. He mentioned the ponderosa pine should have given it away....... i guess he's talking about that tree.
I wanted to discredit it if i could and that's why I posted it as well as the "story" behind it
This mornings paper(Bighamton's Press &Sun Bulletin wed Nov 17th) in the Outdoors section page 2c actually has an article about cougar sightings as well as mentioning this picture that's floating around town and that it is just that ..... a mule deer hoax.
That guy that writes that section seems like a total self centered jackhole though and totaly discrediting these "big cat" sightings altogether. People are seeing some type of large cat.
I can accept the fact that they might not be cougars but they sure are big whatever they are and they are cats..... no mistaking that.
IF we are not seeing cougars.........my only question is, what the heck are these cats then? They are obviously way bigger than any house cat and they have a tail........not a bob tail.
I might add the ones we have spotted are not even close to black in color.
mule deer .....white tail deer, to me just a damn deer and something you hit with a car.
Talked with all the neighbors and no one else has seen a "cat" around or loose. The ones that i talked to that own a cat or cats...... I asked if I could see them so as to make sure we are not spotting one their cats. I have yet to find a comparable house cat in the area as to what we've spotted in last couple weeks.
Thanks again for that link and taking the time to find it again.....
Guess it's time to put the camera away and load the .243 ........ haven't shot anything in a long time but sounds like that will be the only way to prove it. Gotta kill it. If they aren't there, i won't get into trouble right?
11-17-2004, 09:47 AM
#93
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 19,137
RE: Cougars in Southern NY State
I live in the area your talking about No cougars around here. I'll stop over to the carp corner and see the originals.
BTW I've also seen the picture you poste dhere and on the bowsite it was taken out West,and I'm not talking western NY.
BTW I've also seen the picture you poste dhere and on the bowsite it was taken out West,and I'm not talking western NY.
11-17-2004, 09:52 AM
#94
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 19,137
RE: Cougars in Southern NY State
Her's the article you mentioned.I know dave and he isn't a self centerd anything.
Henderson: Area cougar 'sightings' have no basis in fact
It would be funny, if it wasn't so tedious -- or insulting.
DAVE HENDERSON Outdoors
It's the rash of "cougar sightings'' in the Southern Tier at this time of year. The insulting part is when I'm questioned as to why I'm "hushing them up.''
Actually the reason I don't report them is because there is never anything even resembling proof.
I've been approached in several sports shops in recent weeks about supposedly "confirmed'' sightings of cougars, locally. In each case there are claims of proof -- but it's always the same: either a photo or first-hand conversation with a state wildlife employee. The stories always, always end when the photo is deemed false or questionable and the state wildlife employee either can't be produced, or laughs off the inquiry.
Positive proof of a cougar in Tioga County came recently in the form of a photo of a cougar chasing a deer, probably taken by one of those remote cameras that are triggered by movement. The photo was indeed of a cougar chasing a deer -- a mule deer, through ponderosa pines. The photo had appeared in a national magazine some time ago, noting a venue far from Tioga County.
Then there's always someone who shot a cougar locally and for some reason kept it quiet, but leaked to a buddy that it had an ear tag from some Rocky Mountain state. Our hero of course called the wildlife office in said state and found that, sure enough, those folks had traded cougars to New York for turkeys and grouse.
Western states don't, however, have eastern turkeys and certainly don't need our grouse.
How about the DEC official who admits that the state stocked a male and female cougar in each of three or four Southern Tier Counties? I hear that one a lot and it never goes anywhere. You don't live-trap adult cougars for export, and if the pair were raised from cubs, they'd be attached to humans -- not exactly what you'd imported as predators to cull the deer herd or coyote population, as variously described.
There may occasionally a released or escaped cat traipsing through the Southern Tier. But there is no mating population. Believe me on this; we would know.
I've lived in cougar country and can tell you that when they are around, you know about it. True, they are elusive, but they are also not the least bit tidy. A cougar kill is very messy and very noticeable. If there was a sustainable population of cats in this area, they'd each need at least one deer a week, and the woods would be littered with bloody kill areas.
If a cougar kills livestock, it's not only messy but territorial. The cat loses its shyness and becomes protective of the carcass -- even in daylight.
No, there simply is no population of cougars hereabouts. Then again, I have no credibility because everyone knows that I'm covering up for the DEC
Henderson: Area cougar 'sightings' have no basis in fact
It would be funny, if it wasn't so tedious -- or insulting.
DAVE HENDERSON Outdoors
It's the rash of "cougar sightings'' in the Southern Tier at this time of year. The insulting part is when I'm questioned as to why I'm "hushing them up.''
Actually the reason I don't report them is because there is never anything even resembling proof.
I've been approached in several sports shops in recent weeks about supposedly "confirmed'' sightings of cougars, locally. In each case there are claims of proof -- but it's always the same: either a photo or first-hand conversation with a state wildlife employee. The stories always, always end when the photo is deemed false or questionable and the state wildlife employee either can't be produced, or laughs off the inquiry.
Positive proof of a cougar in Tioga County came recently in the form of a photo of a cougar chasing a deer, probably taken by one of those remote cameras that are triggered by movement. The photo was indeed of a cougar chasing a deer -- a mule deer, through ponderosa pines. The photo had appeared in a national magazine some time ago, noting a venue far from Tioga County.
Then there's always someone who shot a cougar locally and for some reason kept it quiet, but leaked to a buddy that it had an ear tag from some Rocky Mountain state. Our hero of course called the wildlife office in said state and found that, sure enough, those folks had traded cougars to New York for turkeys and grouse.
Western states don't, however, have eastern turkeys and certainly don't need our grouse.
How about the DEC official who admits that the state stocked a male and female cougar in each of three or four Southern Tier Counties? I hear that one a lot and it never goes anywhere. You don't live-trap adult cougars for export, and if the pair were raised from cubs, they'd be attached to humans -- not exactly what you'd imported as predators to cull the deer herd or coyote population, as variously described.
There may occasionally a released or escaped cat traipsing through the Southern Tier. But there is no mating population. Believe me on this; we would know.
I've lived in cougar country and can tell you that when they are around, you know about it. True, they are elusive, but they are also not the least bit tidy. A cougar kill is very messy and very noticeable. If there was a sustainable population of cats in this area, they'd each need at least one deer a week, and the woods would be littered with bloody kill areas.
If a cougar kills livestock, it's not only messy but territorial. The cat loses its shyness and becomes protective of the carcass -- even in daylight.
No, there simply is no population of cougars hereabouts. Then again, I have no credibility because everyone knows that I'm covering up for the DEC
11-17-2004, 11:02 AM
#96
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Delhi, NY (by way of Chenango Forks)
Posts: 1,706
RE: Cougars in Southern NY State
NY Outdoors
Actually, Dave Henderson is a rather well repected outdoor writer and author. He is simply sick of being asked about these rumors and being told that he is "lying" or protecting the DEC. Can't blame him there - it gets old pretty fast. He is no where near a "jackhole".
By the way, you should read a bit better next time, as well. He did not discredit all sightings. He actually says that there very well may be cats here. But one or two (loose pets, etc.), but nothing that could be considered a population.
Actually, Dave Henderson is a rather well repected outdoor writer and author. He is simply sick of being asked about these rumors and being told that he is "lying" or protecting the DEC. Can't blame him there - it gets old pretty fast. He is no where near a "jackhole".
By the way, you should read a bit better next time, as well. He did not discredit all sightings. He actually says that there very well may be cats here. But one or two (loose pets, etc.), but nothing that could be considered a population.
11-18-2004, 08:18 AM
#97
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 45
RE: Cougars in Southern NY State
i may have found the before mentioned horse kill in the catskills with picks of the horse
http://www.fourthbranchofamerica.org/dec_cougars.asp
For obvious reason all state agencies will not state if they are here or not due to the liability of it.
if they don't know of it, they can't be sued for it when someones kid gets mauled. We all know the first time they state yes they are here and some kid gets chewed up that the parents are instantly going to scream ...... you knew it was there and did nothing.
I think we all agree that if these are released pets that they pose a greater danger from being raised around people and they should be taken out of the wild. It just amazes me that no state agency seems to get too involved with the capture of any of these animals if they are loose for that very reason. AND I'm not talking just NY
couple other interesting press articles
http://www.pressrepublican.com/Archi.../060920028.htm believe this to be northern ny
http://www.tristatenews.com/printer_2463.stm state college PA
sorry this one has two pop ups in it.......hate to post that but nice article, onieda NY, police involvement and statements
http://www.oneidadispatch.com/site/n...id=68844&rfi=8
if nothing else some interesting reading.
keep your eyes pealed when your out there boyz, you just might come accross something you thought you'd never see.
http://www.fourthbranchofamerica.org/dec_cougars.asp
For obvious reason all state agencies will not state if they are here or not due to the liability of it.
if they don't know of it, they can't be sued for it when someones kid gets mauled. We all know the first time they state yes they are here and some kid gets chewed up that the parents are instantly going to scream ...... you knew it was there and did nothing.
I think we all agree that if these are released pets that they pose a greater danger from being raised around people and they should be taken out of the wild. It just amazes me that no state agency seems to get too involved with the capture of any of these animals if they are loose for that very reason. AND I'm not talking just NY
couple other interesting press articles
http://www.pressrepublican.com/Archi.../060920028.htm believe this to be northern ny
http://www.tristatenews.com/printer_2463.stm state college PA
sorry this one has two pop ups in it.......hate to post that but nice article, onieda NY, police involvement and statements
http://www.oneidadispatch.com/site/n...id=68844&rfi=8
if nothing else some interesting reading.
keep your eyes pealed when your out there boyz, you just might come accross something you thought you'd never see.
11-18-2004, 08:35 AM
#98
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 19,137
RE: Cougars in Southern NY State
To date, no hard evidence has been produced that would prove the existence of cougars living in the wild in New York...no tracks, scat, dead cougars, photos, videos, or audio tapes
Read in another article that a cougar will eat one to two deer a week,but no one has found any of evidence of all these dead deer.
11-27-2004, 09:41 PM
#99
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location:
Posts: 142
RE: Cougars in Southern NY State
I would love to see your videos and pictures, is this posssible? I have been collecting sightings for almost 2 years, see my web site, www.Trackincats.com We have lost cattle and horses here, and of course it is all denied at this point we need to work together on the facts and information........
ORIGINAL: BuckAlley
Let me give you some info I know on this subject. Take it as you will. I have hunting land w/camp in Cortland Co. I keep in touch with some of the local neighbors, and other hunting clubs. A pair of black panther cougars was spotted the summer of 2002 by 2 different neighbors in the area. One who saw the pair was a farmer. He contacted the DEC regional office in Cortland asking them if black panther cougars had been released in the area. He was obviously concerned for his cattle. The DEC denied any such releases. A few weeks later the farmer then saw the panthers again, and got video footage of the pair. He again contacted the DEC with this information, and the DEC then admitted to releasing a pair of black panthers to help control the deer population.
This isn't the first time cougars have been spotted in NYS. Several yrs back a group of guys I hunt with in Northern Tier Boylston area jump a black panther while doing a deer drive. Several in the group saw it. Later that season another camp in that area got pictures of the panther walking along the edge of the woods by his camp. Cougars & Panthers do exist in NYS. The DEC does not have to inform anyone of such a releases. A few here or there isn't going to harm anything.
Let me give you some info I know on this subject. Take it as you will. I have hunting land w/camp in Cortland Co. I keep in touch with some of the local neighbors, and other hunting clubs. A pair of black panther cougars was spotted the summer of 2002 by 2 different neighbors in the area. One who saw the pair was a farmer. He contacted the DEC regional office in Cortland asking them if black panther cougars had been released in the area. He was obviously concerned for his cattle. The DEC denied any such releases. A few weeks later the farmer then saw the panthers again, and got video footage of the pair. He again contacted the DEC with this information, and the DEC then admitted to releasing a pair of black panthers to help control the deer population.
This isn't the first time cougars have been spotted in NYS. Several yrs back a group of guys I hunt with in Northern Tier Boylston area jump a black panther while doing a deer drive. Several in the group saw it. Later that season another camp in that area got pictures of the panther walking along the edge of the woods by his camp. Cougars & Panthers do exist in NYS. The DEC does not have to inform anyone of such a releases. A few here or there isn't going to harm anything.
11-27-2004, 09:44 PM
#100
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location:
Posts: 142
RE: Cougars in Southern NY State
I would like to get more detailed informatiom from you, go to my web site www.Trackincats.com PLEASE
ORIGINAL: NY Outdoors
I'm posting this just as I created this account just for this topic. and had a sighting few days ago.......why i'm surfing now. I am an avid outdoor person and have spent plenty of time in the NY woods of the southern tier.
I live in Broom county right on the southern teir of new york bodering almost right on the tiago/broom border just west of binghamton ny.
I don't live but barely 10 minutes outside of town.
yes we could hunt right off our porch.....not that I hunt anymore.
between myself and one other household member we have had 4 sightings on our property over the past 6 years.
Each sighting resulted in the cat/cats sprinting at top speed to get out of site as fast as possible. Each sighting happened at various times of the year and how fast those animals are.......have not left us any chance to foto them. Done some light scouting for prints but nothing.
As for going out LOOKING for them..........not this cat(definitely a pun intended), not me no way no how. I aint big guy and no longer own guns. be just my luck that I'll find it.......or should i say......it finds me.
These are not black cats that we see here but solidly tan in color and the stand out feature that can't be mistaken is that large thick long signature dark tipped mountain lion tail.
I had the first sighting out of the four and it took me 4 monthes to accept the fact that what i saw was mostlikely a mountain lion. I argueed it in every way i could ......untill the second sighting
Whatever they are........they are big(100+lbs easy), fast(40mph no problem), and definitely a cat
Bobs have no 3 foot long thick bush tails.......quite obvious there. As for a linx.......I thought possibly but there were no other markings or colors that a linx would have.....not to mention the size difference tween a linx and a full size cougar.
The big one we have seen is about hip height to it's back and we saw that one twice with what appeared to be a cub or yearling cat compared to the big one in size.
we seen it once in spring, twice in summer, and once not but 5 days ago right in our back yard.
instead of getting the camera.....the numbnut i live with sat there trying to get a better look to see if they should get a camera.......made visual with the cat and the cat split. [:@]
These rare cats, whatever they might be are definitely cats, are definitely over 100 pounds, very very fast in full open field run, and each time we have seen them, they see us.........make like a ghost in a hurry.
Those of you may or may not believe what is being said in this thread, one thing is for sure. Those of us that have seen them in NY will atest that what we saw was a cat, was over 100 pounds and most likely a cougar.
Don't believe it, you don't have to.
Someone said they saw one in same area to another aquaintance of mine and they saying they got a foto ........... I'm pestering my awuaintance to get his hands on it as all this has happened in about the last 5 days. he thinks i'm nuts for even saying so and then the next day a friend of his says he got a foto. we shall see. i don't doubt he saw it as I have also.
The stories of the black ones surprise me a bit but I've lived in vermont for 8 years and stories abound up that way of sightings of large large black cats in and area near where i lived up there. aint but a 4 hour drive
They know to stay away from people that is for sure.
Also have heard of cougar sightings up over a few valleys into the newark valley area north of owego in tioga ny about 15 miles as the crow flies from me, maybe 30 miles from ithaca area. There is a lot of space in upstate ny and they could easily roam without ever being seen.
Also heard a very very large dog sound off with a howl this summer.........we got yotes regularly around the house and this was no yote. I'm not saying this was a wolf as it could very well have been a very very large coy dog. anyone who has been around dogs knows the difference tween a 50 pound yote yelp and a 150/200 pound dog howl. Looked but couldn't find and it only sounded once.
16 years living here, never heard a dog like that up there ...... or anywhere for that matter, would have liked to see it.
Believe it or not it's your choice but ......... big tan cats are in NY that resemble mountain lions, cougars, panthers, puma, or whatever name you want to give them.
I'll see if i can't get my hands on this so called "foto"
I'm posting this just as I created this account just for this topic. and had a sighting few days ago.......why i'm surfing now. I am an avid outdoor person and have spent plenty of time in the NY woods of the southern tier.
I live in Broom county right on the southern teir of new york bodering almost right on the tiago/broom border just west of binghamton ny.
I don't live but barely 10 minutes outside of town.
yes we could hunt right off our porch.....not that I hunt anymore.
between myself and one other household member we have had 4 sightings on our property over the past 6 years.
Each sighting resulted in the cat/cats sprinting at top speed to get out of site as fast as possible. Each sighting happened at various times of the year and how fast those animals are.......have not left us any chance to foto them. Done some light scouting for prints but nothing.
As for going out LOOKING for them..........not this cat(definitely a pun intended), not me no way no how. I aint big guy and no longer own guns. be just my luck that I'll find it.......or should i say......it finds me.
These are not black cats that we see here but solidly tan in color and the stand out feature that can't be mistaken is that large thick long signature dark tipped mountain lion tail.
I had the first sighting out of the four and it took me 4 monthes to accept the fact that what i saw was mostlikely a mountain lion. I argueed it in every way i could ......untill the second sighting
Whatever they are........they are big(100+lbs easy), fast(40mph no problem), and definitely a cat
Bobs have no 3 foot long thick bush tails.......quite obvious there. As for a linx.......I thought possibly but there were no other markings or colors that a linx would have.....not to mention the size difference tween a linx and a full size cougar.
The big one we have seen is about hip height to it's back and we saw that one twice with what appeared to be a cub or yearling cat compared to the big one in size.
we seen it once in spring, twice in summer, and once not but 5 days ago right in our back yard.
instead of getting the camera.....the numbnut i live with sat there trying to get a better look to see if they should get a camera.......made visual with the cat and the cat split. [:@]
These rare cats, whatever they might be are definitely cats, are definitely over 100 pounds, very very fast in full open field run, and each time we have seen them, they see us.........make like a ghost in a hurry.
Those of you may or may not believe what is being said in this thread, one thing is for sure. Those of us that have seen them in NY will atest that what we saw was a cat, was over 100 pounds and most likely a cougar.
Don't believe it, you don't have to.
Someone said they saw one in same area to another aquaintance of mine and they saying they got a foto ........... I'm pestering my awuaintance to get his hands on it as all this has happened in about the last 5 days. he thinks i'm nuts for even saying so and then the next day a friend of his says he got a foto. we shall see. i don't doubt he saw it as I have also.
The stories of the black ones surprise me a bit but I've lived in vermont for 8 years and stories abound up that way of sightings of large large black cats in and area near where i lived up there. aint but a 4 hour drive
They know to stay away from people that is for sure.
Also have heard of cougar sightings up over a few valleys into the newark valley area north of owego in tioga ny about 15 miles as the crow flies from me, maybe 30 miles from ithaca area. There is a lot of space in upstate ny and they could easily roam without ever being seen.
Also heard a very very large dog sound off with a howl this summer.........we got yotes regularly around the house and this was no yote. I'm not saying this was a wolf as it could very well have been a very very large coy dog. anyone who has been around dogs knows the difference tween a 50 pound yote yelp and a 150/200 pound dog howl. Looked but couldn't find and it only sounded once.
16 years living here, never heard a dog like that up there ...... or anywhere for that matter, would have liked to see it.
Believe it or not it's your choice but ......... big tan cats are in NY that resemble mountain lions, cougars, panthers, puma, or whatever name you want to give them.
I'll see if i can't get my hands on this so called "foto"