PABowhntr

I read this article yesterday in the local paper.....

http://www.mcall.com/sports/outdoors...,1543165.story

...and was curious to hear some of your reactions to the proposed changes. Crossbows, extended rifle and DMAP are the major issues covered.

juniorpc

Hey Frank, How are you doing? Retired my Browing Tornado as a back up bow and find my two year old Hoyt to the be the most accurrate bow I've ever shot!
On to deer managment in Pennslvania. I just erased the rest of my post and am rewriting it to try and steer things away from the negative. This past year I've spent countless hours and days in the woods running my foxhounds or checking out different areas to run my hounds and found lots of areas with poor habitat. Folks complaining about not filling thier buck tags would have an even harder if not impossible time filling thier "Quality Habitat Tag" if the commission issued such a thing with thier buck tag. Found plenty of habitat in need of help in Lackawanna, Wayne, Monroe, Pike, Luzerne, and Center Counties. Which isn't an issue made up by and for the benifit of foresters, but an issue that effects everyone that enters the woods. Folks spend little or no time scouting, Get out of thier vehicles and go 200 yards into the woods sit in the poorest of available forage (that they helped create and continue to foster) and then blame Dr. Alt for killing the deer off.
I thought some of the proposals that were not brought up and the reasons why they were not proposed, how they would effect Turkey hunting, etc. to be misguided. All wildlife in Pennslvania will benifit from inproved habitat, which we will never have unless the deer population is brought in line. I think the real story is what wasn't proposed and the reasons behind why they were not proposed. Juniorpc.

Tomster

I don't think they are really addressing the issues properly:

I'm glad they have not decreased the doe liscenses and will increase DMAP. I was a little dissapointed that they did not increase the rifle season. Adding Crossbow usage I think is another way for them to entice non archers to participate more during archery.

Overall I felt the changes really did little to address problems to increase Deer Harvest.

No Sunday Hunting deer
Too Short Seasons
Probably lower deer harvest 2003 - 2004 (most guys I talk to did very poorly during rifle) mostly due to the weather

What I would like to see is:

Sunday Hunting Deer
Longer Seasons, ML, Archery, Rifle
Increase in doe lisences
More expanded DMAP

I have at least a 10 to 1 doe to buck ratio near me and the deer stay in the Associations near me, Big Bass Lake, and Pocono Springs. The Associations need to kick out the deer or not feed them to reduce the number of deerand increase deer harvest.

T

MikeE51848

I read his article, and of the proposed changes. I think that x-bows will have minimal impact, much like flintlocks. I'd like the DMAP program, if it leads to increased available hunting areas. Christian Berg scoffs though, at the notion that deer herds are down, and like most people in his position, I'm sure he's hunting private land. Mr Slinsky, who apparently nobody on this board likes (btw, he hunts public land in Carbon county), reported that the president of the PGC board of commmissioners, put the blame squarely on acid rain as the #1 culprit for deforestation, and also that 2 forestry "experts" testified that red oaks were dying after 3 - 5 years, even if they were inside fenced areas. They offered no explanation except that more deer must be killed.

thndrchiken

I don't think crossbows will have that big of an impact. Maybe if it was statewide throughout all seasons. I think that including inlines in the late muzzleloader season and allowing sunday hunting would probably do more. I mean really why carry a crossbow when you could carry your rifle, the silence is the only real advantage. As far as the habitat issue goes, yes the state is really becoming poor and the herd reflects that fact. More doe licenses won't really solve the problem, look at how many doe tags weren't filled. The plain and simple fact is the deer know where to go, POSTED LAND that for the most part don't see hardly any pressure.

BTBowhunter

Not crazy about crossbows making another inroad. MikeE the story you got is WAY different than the one I got. Dunkle named 4 contributing factors to the decline of our forests. Acid rain, insects, soil nutrient depletion AND too many deer.

Gary Alt apparently agrees "It's not one or the other, deer or acid rain. It's both" he also said " But we can't say it's all rain and stop shooting does. If we can't fix the habitat, we're never going to have healthy deer or anything else."

These squotes were in two of our local papers. Neither of them reported that, Dunkle blamed acid rain as the #1 culprit. They both said that he said it was part of the problem and Gary Alt agreed. BTW one of our local writers, Karl Power, seems to be a Slinsky disciple and his paper also reported it this way.

Phildo

My view on this is the following, I hunted two counties this year Crawford on private ground and Forest on private and public during rifle and Muzzy season. The Crawford county deer herd in my book is in huntable numbers, but Forest county has very few deer I think the 2 week doe season is hurting the population big time cut back doe tags in the mountain regions and leave them the same in other areas. Hunted Forest county hard the final Week of Muzzy and didn't even fire a shot. Not like it used to be.

MikeE51848

BTBowhunter,

I appreciate your views on this, and I'm sure Dr Alt has much more data than any columnist. But experiences like mine (and Phildo above) and many, many other hunters are telling him to cut back on doe tags on public land. My friend, we are at a crossroads in public hunting in this state. Soon, we will have forests not only devoid of deer and new growth, but hunters as well. Dr Alt's goal of 15 -19 deer per sq mile is as absurd as is his deer number projections (1.6 million deer???). Are we going to continue to pay $30 or more for licenses, as well as a small fortune in accessories, to sit all day in a treestand on an sgl, on your only day off that week, and see nothing? Will our sons do that?

PABowhntr

After reading some of the responses I think I might share my opinion of the proposed changes.

1. Crossbows:

I must admit that I like the idea of the currently proposed crossbow inclusion into the various deer seasons. This quote:

...is the primary reason why I like it. I definitely do not plan on using a crossbow during the regular centerfire rifle season. However, I do plan on buying one so that I may use it for the after Christmas hunt.

I have always hunted the late season with a bow and have refused to purchase a flintlock simply because of personal preference with one weapon over the other. In other words, I would rather have a shorter effective range than have to worry about keeping powder dry. At the same time I have also refused to buy a percussion or inline muzzleloader because the only time I would probably really use it is during the early October muzzleloader season. In that instance I would only be able to shoot does. So, what good does it do me if a nice buck walks out in front of me and I have this wonderfully effective weapon that I cannot use?

Obviously, a crossbow does not really give me any advantage in terms of range over a typical compound. However the fact that it can be precocked and can be used with a scope makes it somewhat of a "superior" weapon when it comes to getting close to game and shooting undetected...at least in my opinion. With these thoughts in mind and provided that proposal passes I will be buying a crossbow to use for the after-Christmas hunt.

As for DMAP...I agree with Mike. If it means opening up more opportunities to hunt on private land then I am all for it.

rem700man

MikeE:
I agree with you totally & I am also worried about keeping our youth excited. And i think there is one concern that is being totally overlooked by the PGC and for that matter alot of hunters,,THE AMISH! I have complained about this since the 1st week of rifle season & im not letting it go anytime soon,,,these folks are killing way too many deer in some areas and it needs to be addressed! The same areas that are being slammed with red tag & green tag killin all summer long are the same areas that the amish are just literally slaying the deer. now i dont profess to have the answers to the problems of acid rain etc..... but this is a problem that can be dealt with very easily