Cornelius08

"Whats obvious is that virtually the entire wildlife management community "

Ecoextremists at audubon & dcnr do not equate to the entire wildlife management community.

bluebird2

The previous DMP was based on 20 years of scientific study to determine the carrying capacity and regeneration ability of northern hardwoods.

But in 2000 the PGC rejected that science and applied a new brand of science based on subjective criteria that could be manipulated anyway they choose. The current science is similar to the science that was used before 1980, so one could say the PGC set science back by over 20 years and the harvest results agree.

Cornelius08

"Actually, state wildlife agencies follow the workings of other states to save them time and research resources. If you knew anything about how wildlife managers work, I doubt you'd have made that uninformed claim."

I made no uninformed claim. And the day YOU know more about management than i, is the day i quit posting for good. lol. Your statement above, as usual, has nothing to do with anything that was actually said. NO STATE is currently mirroring pgc management and even Shissler stated such. Thats why the ecoextremist gave pgc such a good rating compared to the rest of the nation. Perhaps HE should do our audit? lmao. Afterall, hes a biologist and dabbles in science, according to your logic, he should be just great. lmao.

"You didnt answer my question so I'll ask again. Who with any wildlife management expertise among this entire country, make that the entire world if you like, has criticised PA's DMP? Or are they ALL "ecoextremists"?"

Oh, i most certainly DID answer you, but you didnt like the answer. Go back and read.

BTBowhunter

Not talking about audubon or DCNR.

Why don't you tell us what Dr Krolls position is? Dr Dave Samuel? Charles Alsheimer? Lenny Rue? How about the stump sitters? Deer and Heer hunting's staff? QDMA? How about every major hunting publication in this country?

Can you find even one state agency that has come out with anything but support for PA's DMP. If there's science on your side out there this should be easy!

Cornelius08

Therefore, even though the PGC model reflected a level below "overbrowsing" in WMU 2G, the forests of this unit still required deer-deterrent fencing and other measures to get any regeneration of the "preferred species." A point of clarification: "preferred species" are not just those species commercially valuable for timber production. In fact, a large majority of "preferred species" are wildflowers, fruit and soft mast producing shrubs, and noncommercial tree species. This term is based solely upon white-tailed deer feeding habits and nutrition. This model is currently being revised to address these needs and others.

While i think the numbers compared to the cc of the land speak for themselves as to the biodiversity extreme agenda, above is about as close as youre gonna get to admission coming from pgc/dcnr.

Cornelius08

"Not talking about audubon or DCNR."

Well you shouldve been. Because they are largely the ones who support the plan.

"Why don't you tell us what Dr Krolls position, Dr Dave Samuel? Charles Alsheimer? Lenny Rue? How about the stump sitters? Deer and Heer hunting's staff? QDMA? How about every major hunting publication in this country? "

Most dont have one. Most...more like NONE have audited our commissions data and practices...AT ALL... And most of them havent even voiced an opinion on the whether the exact level of hr we've recieved is warranted or not...So Im not sure what you point is in regard to their "positions" other than its pretty clear you are trying to give them one of your own. Dont know why an audit is being done when we can just ask Kroll without even looking at pgcs data! lmao. Course im sure theyve all seen the outdated qdm maps plastered all over the net with data from 10 years ago showing our deer densities to be double what they actually are now... So I guess they are qualified enough for your standards. lol.

Qdma? lmao. Good one. On that one I'll agree! I am familiar with a few of the officers who are transplant enviromentalists who suddenly found a love of hunting to bolster their position in "the deer wars". One in particular got "discovered" for being a poser, was brought to attention, and was shot down in bid for pgc commissioner chair.

"Can you find even one state agency that has come out with anything but support for PA's DMP."

By actions I can find a helluva lot more than one. Since there isnt one in the entire nation with such an extreme asinine program in place. Thats been proven by your pal shissler. 'Bout the only good thing that guy did was point that out, and completely unintentional on his part.....So i guess its kinda like me saying....I support someone who chooses to walk in dog crap track it in the house, throw cigarette butts on the floor and urinate on the couch...In their own home if they so choose. But I wouldnt suggest it to anyone else, and i wont be doing it here. Thats the logic you are using when it comes to other states "not condemning" pgc practices. lol. Like the example above, They arent recommending it. And they arent practicing it. But if it were "the only way" or even "the best way", id imagine the huge majority of the country would be emulating pgc instead of sitting back laughing at the "deer wars" they created.

BTBowhunter

Lots of rambling, Lots of name calling and inflammatory words, lots of bold type yelling but not one single example of what I challenged you to produce.

Looks like the science on your side is pretty thin, invisible actually.

bluebird2

You listed a bunch of names and claimed that other states support our plan. You provided absolutely nothing to support your claims while I provided PGC data that shows the plan has failed to produced the predicted results and all you could do is dismiss the PGC data as flawed just as you dismissed the data from Miss.
So it is you that can't support your claims and accusations and BTW I see you had no response to my previous post where I showed the previous plan was based on more science than our current DMP.

germain

My son's hunting bow in this stuff.And this weekend he wants to go to the cabin.Low 5 high 15.He'll do anything for a buck...no pun intended.
Oops...sorry off topic.

Cornelius08

Yes, and every bit of it is eminating from your keyboard.

Huh? Point it out and turn it in to a mod. Another fine example of btb stretching the truth far past its limit. Noone besmirched you btb. Just because you get busted for it all the time doesnt mean you can goad others into it, which is clearly your goal. You wanna feign disgust over calling known open to controversy public figures who are extreme in the environmental beliefs "enviro-extremists"? gimme a break.

I think you need to reread a few of your posts.

And lie telling...again. I explained quite a few timesover and over and over to you exactly that my bold is to separate text without using the quote feature. etc. Yet knowing that, you intentionally lie saying my intent is otherwise and do so continually simply to start argument. Is that not "inflamatory" and attempting to start a fight? As usual with the same instigator as always? If you dont like using bold or other, say so, just dont expect everyone to bend to your every whim...just dont use it yourself whatever if takes, but i see no good to come from you lying about my intent.

According to you and your poor attempt at deflecting from the facts of the matter.

Apparently the rest of the nation doesnt think so.