Valley Forge hunt cancelled
#91
The browse impact surverys can't be over-inflated.Come on down this spring when we do them and see for yourself.The public is welcome.As far as the pellet counts go,I don't have much faith in them.Deer over winter in different areas depending on food so it's hard to say how accurate they are.On top of that,I personally feel that a percentage of pellet groups degrade during periods of winter thaws which can skew the results from year to year.I've also done pellet counts in areas where I see loads of deer every day on my way to work.The one year,we came up with 18 dpsm in one of the heaviest concentrated areas because a couple flocks of turkeys worked through the area just prior to doing the count.Getting a measure on deer numbers is almost impossible.It's much more reliable to gauge the habitat.
Last year we checked in 150 bow killed deer that were killed on 2200 acres.That equates to a harvest of around 43 dpsm.That doesn't account for poached deer and deer that are killed by tresspassers and never checked in.There is no doubt in my mind that the harvest in those areas is way above 50 dpsm.Now that's just bow killed deer.Imagine how many dpsm would be harvested if rifles were allowed.The highest over winter pellet count we came up with was just shy of 70 dpsm.We're killing over 40 pre season deer per square mile with bows.You really think those numbers are inflated?
I resigned from the wildlife committee during november so I don't have the total updated harvest at this point.I do know that as of the the last week of november,143 had been checked in.I also know that several more were checked in during both rifle season and the late season so the harvest has actually increased.
I'm also willing to be that the number of poached deer and deer shot by hunters without permits would easily approach another 100 deer.
Last year we checked in 150 bow killed deer that were killed on 2200 acres.That equates to a harvest of around 43 dpsm.That doesn't account for poached deer and deer that are killed by tresspassers and never checked in.There is no doubt in my mind that the harvest in those areas is way above 50 dpsm.Now that's just bow killed deer.Imagine how many dpsm would be harvested if rifles were allowed.The highest over winter pellet count we came up with was just shy of 70 dpsm.We're killing over 40 pre season deer per square mile with bows.You really think those numbers are inflated?
I resigned from the wildlife committee during november so I don't have the total updated harvest at this point.I do know that as of the the last week of november,143 had been checked in.I also know that several more were checked in during both rifle season and the late season so the harvest has actually increased.
I'm also willing to be that the number of poached deer and deer shot by hunters without permits would easily approach another 100 deer.
Doug, I believe you truthfully represented your harvest numbers...and numbers can't lie. I'm just curious if you think that those numbers are reducing the herd in TL, keeping it stable, or insufficient. Maintaining similar harvest over the two years would indicate stability, but I don't know how much your number of participants may have varied in that time. Just trying to figure what the harvest indicates the population to be, to see how much the actual varies from the pellet count. Any thought of a FLIR survey? It could help in proving definitivenumbers and establishing goals.
#92
The highest over winter pellet count we came up with was just shy of 70 dpsm.We're killing over 40 pre season deer per square mile with bows.You really think those numbers are inflated?
#93
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,262
Doug, I believe you truthfully represented your harvest numbers...and numbers can't lie. I'm just curious if you think that those numbers are reducing the herd in TL, keeping it stable, or insufficient. Maintaining similar harvest over the two years would indicate stability, but I don't know how much your number of participants may have varied in that time. Just trying to figure what the harvest indicates the population to be, to see how much the actual varies from the pellet count. Any thought of a FLIR survey? It could help in proving definitivenumbers and establishing goals.
We talked about doing a helicopter count during the winter several years ago but there isn't any funding.Treasure lake is pretty much flat broke and they won't put any money into the wildlife or the habitat.Golf is much more important here.
Last edited by DougE; 01-05-2010 at 10:22 AM.
#94
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,262
We keep pretty good records so here's some other statistics.Last year we capped the number of hunters at 200 but only had about 194 actually register to hunt.Of those hunters,only about 60 actually harvested deer.We dmap'd the property into two different sections.That way,hunters could get two dmap tags per section and the efficiency would increase.The vast majority of hunters killed nothing but the die hard guys hit them pretty hard.Every year about the 3rd week of october,I start to hear hunters complain that there's no deer.The deer are there but even at those densities,they avoid people much easier than you'd believe.We opened a section this year for a trial flintlock hunt.Thirty eight people are participating and I believe as of saturday,only three deer have been killed during the late FL season.Weather has certainly been a factor but the deer aren't in the same areas now as they were earlier in the fall.
#95
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,262
You really can't base harvest trends on what the actual harvest is in here either.The property has only been hunted for three years so the efficiency and kill rate should increase for several years as guys get to know the property.The vast majority of the guys hunting here aren't residents so they went at it almost blind the first couple of years.
#98
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
I honestly believe we're overwintering every bit of 70 dpsm but there's no way to tell.
#100
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,262
Like I've stated a million times,there isn't a few shrubs.There's over 1800 houses and a huge logging operation going on right now.It's not a contiguous forest.Regardless,there's no preferred regeneration.Once the logging is done,TL will turn into a beech and striped maple forest because the trees are being cut in a non-sustainable manner and the deer are eating every single preferred seedling.I sure as heck don't see the value in that and I can see why the PGC doesn't as well.In less than 20 years,the entire undeveloped area will be worthless pole timber made up of beech and the area will not have anywhere near that number of deer.Yep that a great plan that should be adopted by the PGC.