Did ARs Really Produce bigger 2.5+ Buck?
09-24-2009, 12:12 PM
#11
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
The fact that a small group of hunters are harvesting bigger buck than before ARs is not a big surprise. ARs prevent you from shooting the spikes and ys,so obviously the bucks you harvest will have larger racks. But, the question remains as to whether the average 2.5+ buck is larger or smaller than the average 2.5+ buck pre-ARs.
I wish we all could say the same.
09-24-2009, 12:20 PM
#13
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
Here is what Alt said.
Of all the things that could improve our
deer breeding ecology and increase the size
of bucks in the herd, nothing would do it
as quickly and dramatically—and be ac-
cepted by hunters—as changing our ant-
ler restrictions.
This was the message that Dr. Gary
Alt, Pennsylvania Game Commission
Deer Management Section supervisor,
carried throughout the Commonwealth
prior to antler restrictions being placed
into effect for the 2002-03 license year.
“Our traditional antler restriction
before implementing the change in
2002 required bucks to have two or
more points on one antler, or a spike
three or more inches in length,” Alt
said. “By increasing the number of
points required to be legal, we will pro-
tect a significant percentage of younger
bucks by allowing them to live longer.
This should increase the number of
bucks living at least one more year and,
in the long term, hunters
will likely see more
and larger bucks than they
have ever seen before.
deer breeding ecology and increase the size
of bucks in the herd, nothing would do it
as quickly and dramatically—and be ac-
cepted by hunters—as changing our ant-
ler restrictions.
This was the message that Dr. Gary
Alt, Pennsylvania Game Commission
Deer Management Section supervisor,
carried throughout the Commonwealth
prior to antler restrictions being placed
into effect for the 2002-03 license year.
“Our traditional antler restriction
before implementing the change in
2002 required bucks to have two or
more points on one antler, or a spike
three or more inches in length,” Alt
said. “By increasing the number of
points required to be legal, we will pro-
tect a significant percentage of younger
bucks by allowing them to live longer.
This should increase the number of
bucks living at least one more year and,
in the long term, hunters
will likely see more
and larger bucks than they
have ever seen before.
09-24-2009, 12:37 PM
#14
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: 2G Gaines Pa
Posts: 524
This should increase the number of
bucks living at least one more year and,
in the long term, hunters
will likely see more
and larger bucks than they
have ever seen before.
bucks living at least one more year and,
in the long term, hunters
will likely see more
and larger bucks than they
have ever seen before.
09-24-2009, 12:43 PM
#15
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,262
No, you are the one that is lying, because it would be impossible to have, "Larger buck than ever seen before" if the size of the 2.5+ buck didn't increase due to ARs.
Alt did not just say hunters would see more big buck than ever before, he said those bucks would also be bigger than ever before.
That is a fact and the only way you can deny it is to lie.
Alt did not just say hunters would see more big buck than ever before, he said those bucks would also be bigger than ever before.
That is a fact and the only way you can deny it is to lie.
09-24-2009, 12:47 PM
#16
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
We harvested 109,200 in 2007 and 122,000 in 2008. the interesting thing is the vast majority of that increase was due to the 10,000 additional 2.5+ buck that were harvested, rather than a large increase in 1.5 buck. Therefore, the harvest does not indicate the herd is increasing, it just shows that the 2007 was reduced due to the bad weather conditions the first two days.
09-24-2009, 12:52 PM
#17
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,236
The fact that a small group of hunters are harvesting bigger buck than before ARs is not a big surprise.
It really isn't an exclusive club.
I will say that we almost always score on the second day, not the opener, since AR started. You figure THAT ONE out, because I can't. But I aint spending alot of time wondering either, if you get my drift.
At home in 2B has not really changed since AR. It's hit or miss on small woodlots. too much human activity that alters deer movement, so it's a crap shoot. Big bucks? you bet. but they are nocturnal in nature at home.
09-24-2009, 01:05 PM
#18
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
Here we go again with another classic Bluebird flimflam designed to confuse the issue.
I know of no one on this board who took ALts words (Ill chosen as the were) and interpereted iy to mean that ANY age class of bucks would get bigger be it 1.5, 2.5, 3.5, 4.5 or whatever.
NO CLAIM WAS EVER MADE that 2.5 bucks would get bigger within their age class. The claim was that the average age would get older and therefore the average antler size would increase, because the AVERAGE BUCK would be OLDER. That has happened.
I know of no one on this board who took ALts words (Ill chosen as the were) and interpereted iy to mean that ANY age class of bucks would get bigger be it 1.5, 2.5, 3.5, 4.5 or whatever.
NO CLAIM WAS EVER MADE that 2.5 bucks would get bigger within their age class. The claim was that the average age would get older and therefore the average antler size would increase, because the AVERAGE BUCK would be OLDER. That has happened.
09-24-2009, 01:07 PM
#19
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
Why are we in that group (most) every year? Why are you not in that group at least sometimes? I can't figure that one out because we hunt public owned lands.
It really isn't an exclusive club.
I will say that we almost always score on the second day, not the opener, since AR started. You figure THAT ONE out, because I can't. But I aint spending alot of time wondering either, if you get my drift.
At home in 2B has not really changed since AR. It's hit or miss on small woodlots. too much human activity that alters deer movement, so it's a crap shoot. Big bucks? you bet. but they are nocturnal in nature at home.
It really isn't an exclusive club.
I will say that we almost always score on the second day, not the opener, since AR started. You figure THAT ONE out, because I can't. But I aint spending alot of time wondering either, if you get my drift.
At home in 2B has not really changed since AR. It's hit or miss on small woodlots. too much human activity that alters deer movement, so it's a crap shoot. Big bucks? you bet. but they are nocturnal in nature at home.
Thats the experience in my part of 2F as well Greg.